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Thread: Disarmament of Population

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPT Holzbach
    We should do both, but the focus in the beginning should be security, overwhelmingly. Then gradually shift over into the development stuff as security improves.
    I agree with you in principle - in fact, I guess I wasn't clear enough in what I was saying. In my earlier post I said that can't wait to initiate development until total security has been established. The implied statement is that, as soon as an acceptable degree of security is reached, development programs have to kick off full force. This means that there will be an element of risk accepted by those involved in development, and reliance on synchronization of ops with those responsible for security. In the statement of yours that I quoted above, I only take issue with the semantics of "...gradually shift over into development..".

    In my opinion, its not a shift over to development. It should be the bringing of development into the operational picture, with no reduction in the security effort. In fact, in the early phase of implementing real development efforts, security ops need to increase as the mission expands to include escort and protection duties for many elements of the development piece.

    Iraq clearly demonstrates how manpower-intensive that can be. Disruption of basic services through infrastructure attacks, criminal kidnappings, bombing attacks upon civilians are all security issues - but they are also all linked in to the development effort. On the other hand, the unemployment rate and gaps between wages and goods may seem to be a development focus, but it is tied in very tightly to the security issue.

    In Iraq, we have never had the force structure in place to implement the degree of security necessary to effectively move forward with development. Because of that manpower shortage, despite the massive expenditure of funds and material, many critical areas have not improved significantly since '03 (some have even retrograded). The inability to address those issues over the intervening period certainly feeds into the insurgency. That is why the standing up of the Iraq military and security forces are so critical. We have to succeed.

  2. #22
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Martial Law was exactly what I was trying to think of for a better concept then just disarming. Much more would be envolved. I have a question. On TV reports the streets are always so dirty, good place to hide IED's. Don't they clean streets over there? If unemployment is so bad cain't they hire people to clean up and have fewer places to hide IED's. This is part of the broken window theory of police work, if the neighborhood looks bad it draws bad people, makes them take advantage of chaos, nobody in control? Your comments are welcome on this.

  3. #23
    Council Member CPT Holzbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9
    Martial Law was exactly what I was trying to think of for a better concept then just disarming. Much more would be envolved. I have a question. On TV reports the streets are always so dirty, good place to hide IED's. Don't they clean streets over there? If unemployment is so bad cain't they hire people to clean up and have fewer places to hide IED's. This is part of the broken window theory of police work, if the neighborhood looks bad it draws bad people, makes them take advantage of chaos, nobody in control? Your comments are welcome on this.
    Yes, there is usually a lot of trash on the streets in Baghdad, and it is sometimes used to conceal IEDs. There have been many efforts at cleaning up the streets and reducing clutter, everything from hiring locals, to giving 48 hour notice to street vendors who block store fronts to move out or get their stands crushed by Bradleys and tanks (the guys who did this said it was IMMENSLY entertaining, though maybe not the best idea since the shops quickly reappeared). There is also much rubble that is used sometimes to conceal IEDs as well.

    There was always a problem with corruption in hiring locals. Also, the people there are strikingly lazy about taking care of their neighborhoods. Many times giant dumpsters would be purchased and placed around the neighborhoods for both trash and dead animals (cattle). Two things would invariably happen. Either trash would be stacked AROUND the dumspter with little going INSIDE of it (!?), or the dumpster would quickly fill up and then the corruption of the garbage removal companies would have to be dealt with. Many times people would burn the contents. Other times they just throw the trash in the streets. Some of it is lack of government and private services. Some of it is simple laziness.

    As far as the "broken window" concept, I always liked that idea, I know Gulianne (spelling?), the former NYC mayor, touted it a lot along with community policing, and it worked wonders for NYC crime. For Iraq, I would say that it is too subtle. When you have sewage in some of the streets, trash almost everywhere, and daily killings, making your neighborhood look nice to stop crime is just too small a thing to have meaningful effect. It works in a stable society run by the rule of law, like the USA. But Iraq has a ways to go before it can progress to that much of a nuanced policing concept. Bigger, bolder, more sweeping changes are needed first. Although if a sense of civic duty and personal responsibility could be fostered, it would help. Now, community policing would be a great thing to import there, for both the Iraqi Police and Army, AND THE AMERICANS. Combined Action Platoons.
    "The Infantry’s primary role is close combat, which may occur in any type of mission, in any theater, or environment. Characterized by extreme violence and physiological shock, close combat is callous and unforgiving. Its dimensions are measured in minutes and meters, and its consequences are final." - Paragraph 1-1, FM 3-21.8: Infantry Rifle PLT and SQD.

    - M.A. Holzbach

  4. #24
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    I would have loved to have seen the Bradley Police Car (uh excuse me combat vehicle) in action myself. I really like hearing what it is like. One of the websites that Jedburgh recomended talked about one unit having to send a rifle to squad to get some people to fix a sewer, this was actually there real job before the war, but they were mad at the people who had the sewer leak so they didn't think they should fix it. After some non verbal communication the sewer was fixed. Anyway welcome home.

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