Army Officer Commercial

[Massengale]

And how much private sector experience do you have? There aren't that many regular jobs that offer work from home, and the 4/10 schedule is still limited to a few sectors. And if you're in a company or environment that uses a time bank you have to balance any vacation against a possible need for sick leave (since time banks tend to lump all accrued "off hours" into a single pool that's used for both) and possibly any holidays in the bargain (yes...there are some places that make you take your earned hours to get paid for holidays). And if your job requires you to flex out, you have to use those hours to get paid. Last time I checked the military didn't require you to burn leave on a command-designated "down day."

Not saying that the military's policy is necessarily better, but what you read in the "Army Times" about private sector opportunities often doesn't square with the reality. Nor does elite coastal job experience. That's not the norm for folks out here...a point that is often missed.

And as for monoculture...if you think the Army's bad you should try academia sometime.

I have almost a decade's worth of major corporate experience in NY. (Agreed, that doesn't necessarily represent the norm across America.) And I was in academia once upon a time. Gave it up partially because of the monocultural miasma you suggest. Flex time/work from home does seem to be a sharply growing trend across the IT/media/high-tech centers....and I stand by the point that the 30 days (because of the weekends) is really only three weeks off. I don't dispute that the DOD's pass/leave policies are more generous than most private sector jobs (unless you're actually trying to use a pass or leave to actually go anywhere...)...but it's not just academia that offers comparable benefits.

(And, yes, academia is worse when it comes to the monocultural aspect!)

[Schmedlap]

...and I stand by the point that the 30 days (because of the weekends) is really only three weeks off. I don't dispute that the DOD's pass/leave policies are more generous than most private sector jobs (unless you're actually trying to use a pass or leave to actually go anywhere...)...

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. You are correct that the 30 days of leave equates to 3 weeks if the leave is used in a manner in which it overlaps with weekends. That is a pretty simple issue to solve. Start your leave on a Monday and/or end it on a Friday. I did that for 9 years. When I ETS'd, I took 60 days of terminal leave - collecting BAH and BAS for those two months even though I was already beginning to grow my beard.

It is also worth pointing out how easily (and often) the leave process is abused. I knew Officers and NCOs who took weeks of leave and never had it charged against them. I was thought a jerk for raising this issue with the Battalion Commander - as though free leave were some kind of entitlement. This was not an issue isolated to our unit or our installation, as I saw it elsewhere and know of senior NCOs who arrived at the unit with the expectation that they only needed to become buddies with someone in the S1 shop and their leave would then be free.

Furthermore, passes are common and have been getting more common as the war has gone on. Oh no, POV inspection and some other minor administrative hoops? Geez, 30 minutes out of your life to take a few days off with full pay. That's rough. Ditto half days and three- and four-day weekends. Federal holidays are off. Small unit leaders often exercise discretion to just let a guy go home if something significant is occurring. A water leak, hotwater heater crapping the bed, sick child or spouse, car problem, or other unforeseen events often, if not usually, result in a guy leaving work early or taking a day off with no leave days incurred. One of my squad leaders used up all of his leave and went 10 days in the hole upon our return from one deployment because his mother was terminally ill. When he returned, his mother was on life support 300 miles away. I brought him into the battalion commander's office to try to obtain more leave. The BC took the old leave form (45 days of leave) ripped it up and said, "it looks like he's still got plenty of leave remaining." Find the me the civilian boss that can, and will, do that.

Then there is my personal favorite - attending to personal business while on duty. I cannot begin to describe the amount of pushback and indignation that I was up against when I started reigning in the amount of personal business that my Soldiers were conducting during duty hours. People were leaving during the day - or just taking the day off altogether - to get their license renewed, their registration renewed, to take motorcycle driving tests, etc, etc. When I ordered a stop to this, my NCOs reacted as though I was canceling Christmas (which, I guess I kind of was). I later learned that this was not just some phenomenon unique to that unit. It happens everywhere.

Okay, so 30 days equals 3 weeks. I have only scratched the surface of all of the intangibles that make the Army one of the most generous organizations on the planet when it comes to time off. Many of those intangibles are not sanctioned by the powers-that-be, but they are commonplace nonetheless and I suspect many power-that-be know about them. It would not surprise me if many of those powers-that-be partake of them. That may be a reason why more leave is not offered up.

But despite my different take on the issue, I do agree that the Army should not advertise the 30 days off. The Army is a service-oriented institution. The commercials and other promotional material pushes way too hard on the "what it's in in for me?" angle. I wish we pushed harder to emphasize the challenges, the demands, and high expectations. This may be a federal job, but it shouldn't be like the others.

[JarodParker]

But despite my different take on the issue, I do agree that the Army should not advertise the 30 days off. The Army is a service-oriented institution. The commercials and other promotional material pushes way too hard on the "what it's in in for me?" angle. I wish we pushed harder to emphasize the challenges, the demands, and high expectations. This may be a federal job, but it shouldn't be like the others.

Well put Schmedlap. I believe we have come full circle. I posted the video in the first place because I felt the army was finally heading in the right direction when it comes to its recruitment pitch. In a way the army is kind of like the artsy fixer-upper chick with the dorky glasses and walmart cloth from your typical high school flick... lots of potential but in need of a makeover.

On the third, maybe my English but not sure whether that's pos or neg.

That's definitely a negative. No military can expect to recruit fighting men with a video that has a "Creed" song as a soundtrack. The RNZAF video is good to go.

[Massengale]

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. You are correct that the 30 days of leave equates to 3 weeks if the leave is used in a manner in which it overlaps with weekends. That is a pretty simple issue to solve. Start your leave on a Monday and/or end it on a Friday. I did that for 9 years.
[snip]

Furthermore, passes are common and have been getting more common as the war has gone on. Oh no, POV inspection and some other minor administrative hoops? Geez, 30 minutes out of your life to take a few days off with full pay.

[snip]
But despite my different take on the issue, I do agree that the Army should not advertise the 30 days off. The Army is a service-oriented institution. The commercials and other promotional material pushes way too hard on the "what it's in in for me?" angle. I wish we pushed harder to emphasize the challenges, the demands, and high expectations. This may be a federal job, but it shouldn't be like the others.

1. I completely agree with your last point. See the Marines as an example.

2. We might have run into a major cultural difference here. just take leave beginning on Monday and ending on Friday? you can't take successive M-F leaves (at least not if they're following regs). So if you're actually planning on taking a real vacation (as opposed to a short trip....nothing wrong with a quick four day to Paris but if you plan on going anywhere else....) that doesn't work.
as for the work required: these days, it's not just inspections and leave forms, it's also pointless country briefings, "antiterrorism training", and often having to get a general officer sign off on any real travel.