Dealing with Haditha

[Strickland]

I am not aware of any active-duty service member familiar with the facts of this case that thinks Wutterich is/was a victim.

[jmm99]

and, in the English I know, "apparent murder" means "it appears to me to be murder". Is it murder to you or not ? If it's murder, our "perceptions" differ - and. so be it, we have reached a neutral impasse.

As to the rest of your post, those points I've already covered as being immaterial to me. Lest we misunderstand each other - I speak for JMM, not for the USA. I certainly do have my personal opinions about what the US should or should not have done in the World, should or should not be doing in the World and should or should not do in the future in the World. Apologetics addressing perceptions are not among my selected courses of action.

Regards

Mike

[KingJaja]

English isn't actually my first language. You speak it much better than I do.

I was trying to convey a thought.

[jmm99]

English, that is. I've no problem understanding your thoughts, perceptions, etc., here, or in your Nigeria-Africa posts.

Regards

Mike

[Polarbear1605]

I am not aware of any active-duty service member familiar with the facts of this case that thinks Wutterich is/was a victim.

Then you are not ware of any active-duty sevice members who know the facts. Anyone who takes the time to look at this case will immediately see the victimization. SSgt Wuterich followed his training and is a victim of Strategic Legalism. He has spent hundreds of thousands and owes hundreds of thousands more for a politically motivated court martial.

[Strickland]

I am very familiar with the case and the relevant facts. The facts are clear - there was no positive identification of a threat, and a disproportionate use of force was applied. Both of these facts the defense conceded. The defendants claim "a shot" was fired. If one shot caused 24 deaths, then I think someone should ask a few questions.

[Strickland]

Wikipedia claims that the US military executed 160 service members for capital offenses between 1942-1948. How many contractors or military personnel are currently serving prison sentences for crimes committed in Iraq or Afghanistan? A handful? Now, one can either conclude that WWII era service personnel were not as disciplined, professional, and well trained as today's personnel, OR - one can conclude that we simply close our eyes to these happenings, and/or have grown much more tolerant of extra-judicial killings. Each can reach their own conclusion.

[Polarbear1605]

Wikipedia claims that the US military executed 160 service members for capital offenses between 1942-1948. How many contractors or military personnel are currently serving prison sentences for crimes committed in Iraq or Afghanistan? A handful? Now, one can either conclude that WWII era service personnel were not as disciplined, professional, and well trained as today's personnel, OR - one can conclude that we simply close our eyes to these happenings, and/or have grown much more tolerant of extra-judicial killings. Each can reach their own conclusion.

Not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China. WWII we court martialed 1 in 8 of the 16 million that served. After the war the appeal courts were so jammed Congress initiated and executed a massive reform...what we now call the UCMJ and its appeal process. The beauty of the current system is they kept it a command system that places the authority and trust in the fairness of the commander.
My opinion and conclusion is Haditha is a classic case of Strategic Legalism and to attribute a six year court martial to bad PID is short sighted and naive.

[jmm99]

The caped warrior of the InterWebs has struck again.

Anonymous hacks lawyers for Marine accused of Iraq massacre (by Elinor Mills, February 3, 2012):

In a string of attacks today, members of the digital activist group Anonymous apparently hacked into the Web site of defense lawyers for a U.S. Marine accused of leading a civilian massacre in Iraq, and have reportedly acquired e-mails exchanged by attorneys in the case.
...
The Web site of the law firm Puckett & Faraj, which represented Marine Sgt. Frank Wuterich in his recent court martial, was inaccessible this morning. Wuterich allegedly led a group of Marines in shooting 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians in 2005. The original murder charges were reduced and ultimately dropped entirely as part of an agreement last week in which Wuterich pled guilty to one count of negligent dereliction of duty. He was demoted in rank to private and will have to forfeit some of his pay, but will serve no time.

I give credit to Ms Mills for reporting the legal details correctly: initial charges were murder; they were reduced to manslaughter; and then dropped entirely. The one count of negligent dereliction of duty is not remotely akin to a charge of negligent homicide; negligent dereliction of duty does not carry within it an element (or admission) that the dereliction was a cause of death.

The Anonymous folks do not have Ms Mills' more refined legal knowledge - and don't give a damme because to them it was "murder" - to them, "murder" regardless of what the charges and specifications actually said (and regardless of all the investigative reports, etc.). Those folks want a bigger piece of Frank Wuterich; and will probably get it, at least virtually (from Ms Mills' article):

"As part of our ongoing efforts to expose the corruption of the court systems and the brutality of US imperialism, we want to bring attention to USMC SSgt Frank Wuterich who along with his squad murdered dozens of unarmed civilians during the Iraqi Occupation," Russian news site RT.com reported, quoting from a message that appeared on the law firm's defaced Web site. "Can you believe this scumbag had his charges reduced to involuntary manslaughter and got away with only a pay cut?"

"Meanwhile, Bradley Manning who was brave enough to risk his life and freedom to expose the truth about government corruption is threatened with life imprisonment," the message said."When justice cannot be found within the confines of their crooked court systems, we must seek revenge on the streets and on the internet - and dealing out swift retaliation is something we are particularly good at. Worry not comrades, it's time to deliver some epic ownage."

The hackers also said they had nearly three gigabytes of e-mails from the law firm that they planned to leak to the public.

"How do you think the world will react when they find out Neal Puckett and his marine buddies have been making crude jokes about the incident where marines have been caught on video pissing on dead bodies in Afghanistan?" the message says. "We believe it is time to release all of their private information and court evidence to the world and conduct a People's trial of our own."

A couple of lessons learned from this. One for you all is don't email things you don't want published - and emails ain't secure attorney-client communications.

As to this case, I didn't favor it's even having been brought - for the reasons stated by Paul Ware. I didn't accept Lt.Col. Ware's recommendation to refer to a general court-martial. A firestorm would have erupted for not prosecuting, but such is life.

If, however, such a case had to have been brought (to assuage PR and political factors, for instance), then the charges should have been murder seeking the maximum possible punishment; and the prosecution should not, under any circumstances, have agreed to any reduction of charges or plea bargain. In short, the case should have been forced to merits decisions by the judge and jury. Another firestorm would have erupted, but again such is life.

Once upon a time, we were a bit more straight-forward - at least in making the legalisms clear-cut:

CHARGE: Murder, in violation of the 58th Article of War.

SPECIFICATION: In that Major Littleton W.T. Waller, United States Marine Corps, being then and there detached for service with the United States Army by authority of the President of the United States, did, in time of war, willfully and feloniously and with malice aforethought, murder and kill eleven men, names unknown, natives of the Philippine Islands, by ordering and causing his subordinate officer under his command, John Horace Arthur Day, 1st Lieutenant, U.S. Marine Corps, and a firing detail of enlisted men under his said command, to take out said eleven men and shoot them to death, which said order was then and there carried into execution and said eleven natives, and each of them, were shot with rifles, from the effects of which they then and there died.

This at Basey, Island of Samar, Philippine Islands, on or about the 20th day of January, 1902.
...
PLEA:

To the specification - Guilty, except to the words “willfully and feloniously and with malice aforethought, murder and” - to those words, not guilty. To the charge - Not Guilty

Now, we'll have to wait and see what meat Anonymous will be tossing out - and who the lions will be, jumping out of the Colosseum's cellers to join in the eating with Anonymous.

Frank Wuterich and Bradley Manning - a juxtaposition to think long and hard about.

Regards

Mike

[jcustis]

This Anonymous stuff is frankly pretty terrifying, and wholly annoying. I am also incredibly frustrated by the fact that they seem to be able to hack at will, and legitimate law enforcement can do nothing to prevent it at the moment.

They may consider themselves technical Robin Hoods, but they strike me as no better than spineless thieves and a threat to national security.

[Polarbear1605]

I am very familiar with the case and the relevant facts. The facts are clear - there was no positive identification of a threat, and a disproportionate use of force was applied. Both of these facts the defense conceded. The defendants claim "a shot" was fired. If one shot caused 24 deaths, then I think someone should ask a few questions.

If the "facts" are so clear please explain which facts and where your getting them. In the Watt investigation, the investigating officer determined that the Marines followed their ROE and their Training (TTPs). He also states the PID was established in houses 3 and 4. Establishing PID in Houses 1 and 2 due to hostile action made "it difficult for PID". In the second investigation (Bargewell Investigation) there were no finding of facts. In the Watt investigation under the para asking if any LOW violations occurred the investigating officer states the insurgents were not distinguish themselves from non-combatants and does not mention the Marines. Under the LOW the field commander determines military necessity...the battalion commander and, again, the battalion legal officer determine that there was no murder and the Marines were acting within the current ROE and training. So you think this entire six year court martial is all due to PID?