Dealing with Haditha

[Strickland]

I have read and re-read the numerous postings on this thread, and can honestly say that I am shocked. I am shocked that the majority of comments either read: 1) we should wait and see what the official investigation produces, but the reality is there would be no investigation if not for Rep. Murtha, 2) the Marines are getting bad press from an overly liberal and unsympathetic press corps, or 3) that the press doesnt hold insurgents or terrorists to the same moral standard as US forces.

After 7 months, I am confident that the USMC has a general idea if any criminal act took place, by whom, and when.

Second, I hope that no one truly believes that US forces and insurgents are congruent entities, and thus their actions to be viewed in a similar fashion. Obviously, we hold ourselves to a higher standard. I would compare this with the situation in New Orleans post-Katrina. While I was not shocked that criminal or fringe elements of society looted stores or acted in criminal ways, I was confident that the police would not join them. Evidence that this happened was big news, and spirit crushing.

Next, Haditha has been the site of several large offensive operations over the past two years, thus for anyone to argue that these killings were the result of mentally exhausted troops who were continually restrained by overly restrictive ROE in the face of insurgent activity is counter-factual.

Perception + Truth = Reality; thus, the perception right now is that we are hiding something, and regardless of whether that is true or not, it is the prevailing perception, and thus - reality.

[Merv Benson]

but the reality is there would be no investigation if not for Rep. Murtha,

The investigation was well underway before Murtha used information he got in a briefing from the Marine Corps to wrongly accuse Marines of "killing in cold blood." He had nothing to do with prompting any of the investigations.

I don't understand why anyone would object to the principle of innocent until proven guilty. If these Marines are charged, they deserve an opportunity to make their case.

[Strickland]

I have no objections to innocent until proven guilty; however I repeat my original formula of perception + truth = reality. Based on this formula, O.J. and Robert Blake are guilty in the eyes of the public.

Trust I am VERY familiar with what happened at Haditha, and can only say that I am both ashamed and saddened by it. The Marines of 3/1 that committed these acts do not deserve the blind loyalty of the Marines that have gone before them or that are currently in uniform.

And for all those on the justice band-wagon, does this mean that all those "fighters" that were picked up in Afghanistan deserve to have their day in court rather than rotting at Gitmo? Are they innocent until proven guilty?

[slapout9]

Major Strickland, if you have ever seen the statue of the lady of justice you will remember that she is a lady "blind folded" and holding a set of scales to balance the evidence. The idea is to be blind to anything but the truth, the whole and nothing but the truth.

I was as embarassed as you about the police in New Orleans, more so I am aware of some of their actions that you are not, and it was bad!! And it was a disgrace, and the LE community will have to live with it. But live with it we will and try to learn and go on.

As for OJ maybe you remember another expression that came out of that trial, You cain't convict 5 million dollars, which turned out to be true. As for Robert Blake I couldn't stand to watch the trial. I watched Barretta in high school and I saw his movie "Electra Glide in Blue" ( about a motorcycle cop) while I was in the 82ND Airborne had alot to do with me becoming a cop.

I was at Ft. Benning while Lt. Calley was under house arrest as part of his sentence. I was a 17 year old private (kid) and I wondered what I would have done. That is why I remembered F.Lee Baily he defended Capt. Medina the other officer charged from Mei Li.

As for the justice bandwagon yes sir I am on that one. I have spent a good portion of my life on it and it gets bumpy!!! and you are right about the perception + truth = reality. But I believe and know sometimes the system does work and that is an idea I have sworn to protect.

Major that is an idea you swore to protect also. And you have risked your life to protect it. From your writings at this site I can tell you are a fine person, American, and Marine officer and I bet you go far as you should.

In closing sir let me be so bold as to suggest that you do everything you can to make sure this incident is not about blind loyalty or misguided perceptions, but blind justice.
All the Way, Sir (salute is encluded)

[SWJED]

11 June Washington Post - Marine Says Rules Were Followed by Josh White.

A sergeant who led a squad of Marines during the incident in Haditha, Iraq, that left as many as 24 civilians dead said his unit did not intentionally target any civilians, followed military rules of engagement and never tried to cover up the shootings, his attorney said.

Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, 26, told his attorney that several civilians were killed Nov. 19 when his squad went after insurgents who were firing at them from inside a house. The Marine said there was no vengeful massacre, but he described a house-to-house hunt that went tragically awry in the middle of a chaotic battlefield.

"It will forever be his position that everything they did that day was following their rules of engagement and to protect the lives of Marines," said Neal A. Puckett, who represents Wuterich in the ongoing investigations into the incident. "He's really upset that people believe that he and his Marines are even capable of intentionally killing innocent civilians."...

Wuterich told his attorney in initial interviews over nearly 12 hours last week that the shootings were the unfortunate result of a methodical sweep for enemies in a firefight. Two attorneys for other Marines involved in the incident said Wuterich's account is consistent with those they had heard from their clients.

Kevin B. McDermott, who is representing Capt. Lucas M. McConnell, the Kilo Company commander, said Wuterich and other Marines informed McConnell on the day of the incident that at least 15 civilians were killed by "a mixture of small-arms fire and shrapnel as a result of grenades" after the Marines responded to an attack from a house...

On Edit: I served with Wuterich's attorney in 1980-81. Puckett is a former Marine Corps Intelligence / Counterintelligence Officer who subsequently went into the USMC law program and now has a civilian practice. He is very smart and, from what I have gathered, a very good attorney.

[Strickland]

Major Strickland, if you have ever seen the statue of the lady of justice you will remember that she is a lady "blind folded" and holding a set of scales to balance the evidence. The idea is to be blind to anything but the truth, the whole and nothing but the truth.

I was as embarassed as you about the police in New Orleans, more so I am aware of some of their actions that you are not, and it was bad!! And it was a disgrace, and the LE community will have to live with it. But live with it we will and try to learn and go on.

As for OJ maybe you remember another expression that came out of that trial, You cain't convict 5 million dollars, which turned out to be true. As for Robert Blake I couldn't stand to watch the trial. I watched Barretta in high school and I saw his movie "Electra Glide in Blue" ( about a motorcycle cop) while I was in the 82ND Airborne had alot to do with me becoming a cop.

I was at Ft. Benning while Lt. Calley was under house arrest as part of his sentence. I was a 17 year old private (kid) and I wondered what I would have done. That is why I remembered F.Lee Baily he defended Capt. Medina the other officer charged from Mei Li.

As for the justice bandwagon yes sir I am on that one. I have spent a good portion of my life on it and it gets bumpy!!! and you are right about the perception + truth = reality. But I believe and know sometimes the system does work and that is an idea I have sworn to protect.

Major that is an idea you swore to protect also. And you have risked your life to protect it. From your writings at this site I can tell you are a fine person, American, and Marine officer and I bet you go far as you should.

In closing sir let me be so bold as to suggest that you do everything you can to make sure this incident is not about blind loyalty or misguided perceptions, but blind justice.
All the Way, Sir (salute is encluded)

Trust that I appreciate and respect all your comments. My comment about perception as it relates to justice was not included to suggest that it is a component of the judicial process, but rather, certainly important in the eyes of the public.

I will echo one of your statements. I know much more about this situation than has been released in the press, and am disgusted by the whole thing. I have listened to fellow Marines that I served with in Iraq and other places make excuses or try to produce sufficient justification for these actions, yet none are appropriate. Hopefully Athena will use her hand not holding the scales to push the process along.

The first Nurmeberg trial, or major war criminals trial, took 214 days. The Hadithah killings happened in November 2005 - or roughly 210 days ago.

[SWJED]

11 June Washington Post commentary - Morals in A Combat Zone by Major Peter Kilner, US Army.

The differing reactions to the alleged killing of noncombatants by American soldiers in the Iraqi town of Haditha reveal a troubling ignorance about the moral reality of war. Much of the national dialogue about the incident is being dominated by people whose approaches to making moral judgments on wartime actions are fundamentally flawed.

In one corner are those who are so convinced this war is wrong that they see only the bad things soldiers do in it. Such people are blind to all the good our soldiers and the war are accomplishing, and they revel in exploiting any incident of misbehavior by soldiers to smear all members of the armed forces and the entire war effort. By their logic, abuse of detainees by one platoon in one prison in 2003, or the alleged killing of civilians by one squad in one town in 2005, is conclusive evidence that the entire war effort is evil. These people are unable to reconcile the fact that unjust actions can and do occur within a war that nonetheless is morally justified.

In the other corner are those so convinced of the rightness of our cause that they refuse to acknowledge that our soldiers sometimes make choices that are clearly wrong and for which they should be held accountable. These people equate supporting the laws of war with being unpatriotic and disdainful of the troops. What they fail to recognize is that their implicit argument is both insulting to soldiers and corrosive to the foundation of the military profession. My fellow soldiers and I recognize fully that we are responsible for our individual actions, and that our permission to do violence to other human beings is constrained by our obligation to do so only when it is morally justified...

The circumstances of this war's battlefields are terribly complex. Soldiers find themselves conducting a wide range of operations, from war-fighting to policing, often during a single patrol, and those different operations require different principles for the use of force. It is often difficult for soldiers to discern which approach is appropriate and when. Not infrequently, a well-intentioned soldier ends up killing a noncombatant because of mistaken identity or some other factor caused by the fog of war. In such circumstances, we can say that the action is neither justified nor unjustified but that it is excusable. Not every wrongful death in combat is a war crime.

The good news is that well-trained, well-led soldiers can and do overcome the moral challenges of war and conduct themselves with great honor, and the great majority of American soldiers are well trained and well led. Although we fight an enemy who intentionally violates all norms of human decency and goads us to follow him into the abyss of wanton killing, America's soldiers continue to exhibit remarkable restraint.

What explains the difference between units that commit war crimes and units that don't? Leadership. This is the critical factor in ensuring moral conduct in war. When junior officers and senior noncoms train their soldiers to do what is right and when they maintain their composure and lead by example, their soldiers are able to retain their moral bearings despite the temptations and frustrations of battle...

[Merv Benson]

Is it possible for someone to post the actual Rules of Engagement for the Marines in Haditha so that we can compare them to the sergeant's description of his and the other Marines' actions? I continue to believe that the real question of fact for any ajudication of this matter is at what point should the troops have recognized that they were not dealing with an enemy camouflaged as a civilian?

BTW, comparing the length of a trial to the length of time it takes to investigate an event to see if a crime was committed seems a non sequitor. I think any comparisons of Marines to Nazis is just over the top anyway.

If these troops violated the rules of engagement and committed a crime, I think the military justice system will see that justice is done. Many of the "witnesses" to this event have told conflicting stories which will put their credibility at issue. I think the outcome of the case will turn on whether the events as described by Marines like the sergeant in the Washington Post story constitute a crime.

[SSG Rock]

I have read and re-read the numerous postings on this thread, and can honestly say that I am shocked. I am shocked that the majority of comments either read: 1) we should wait and see what the official investigation produces, but the reality is there would be no investigation if not for Rep. Murtha, 2) the Marines are getting bad press from an overly liberal and unsympathetic press corps, or 3) that the press doesnt hold insurgents or terrorists to the same moral standard as US forces.

After 7 months, I am confident that the USMC has a general idea if any criminal act took place, by whom, and when.

Second, I hope that no one truly believes that US forces and insurgents are congruent entities, and thus their actions to be viewed in a similar fashion. Obviously, we hold ourselves to a higher standard. I would compare this with the situation in New Orleans post-Katrina. While I was not shocked that criminal or fringe elements of society looted stores or acted in criminal ways, I was confident that the police would not join them. Evidence that this happened was big news, and spirit crushing.

Next, Haditha has been the site of several large offensive operations over the past two years, thus for anyone to argue that these killings were the result of mentally exhausted troops who were continually restrained by overly restrictive ROE in the face of insurgent activity is counter-factual.

Perception + Truth = Reality; thus, the perception right now is that we are hiding something, and regardless of whether that is true or not, it is the prevailing perception, and thus - reality.

Murtha's reaction to the Hadithah incident is self serving and disgraceful! Murtha's grandstanding on a Sunday Talk Show was political and opportunistic. The investigation was spurred by Time Magazine, not Murtha. Murtha commented on a TV interview that the investigation (already underway) would reveal that Marines overreacted and killed civilians in "cold blood" he then went on to use the incident as yet another reason we should withdraw from Iraq.

I agree, whole heartedly that US Forces and the terrorists/insurgents are not congruent entities. And that we hold ourselves to a higher standard, unlike our enemy. I say that part of holding ourselves to a higher standard is waiting for the formal, official results of the investigation before we convict these Marines, before we admit that an atrocity occurred. Admittedly, it is looking grim but still, we must wait for the results, because Murtha could be wrong. If the investigation reveals that the Marines murdered non-combatants, then we prosecute them accordingly, that higher standard again.

Perception and truth equal reality? I disagree, truth and facts equal reality, perception is malleable, Murtha knows this and he is trying to take advantage of it to mold the public perception for political reasons, and I find it repugnant. Murtha is well enough connected that he could have expressed his concerns behind closed doors to high level Marine leaders and held his comments until after the investigation, but then he wouldn't be able to strike while the iron is hot, facts be damned. Bottem line, we need to know what happend.

[Steve Blair]

I'd say it's pretty clear that Murtha is trying to get political mileage out of this in the same way that some in Congress did My Lai and other events during Vietnam. I've been trying as much as possible to avoid watching his bit in the dog and pony show and keep focused on the real issue (at least to me): did something horrible happen at Haditha and (if so) who will be punished for it. It's a given that the enlisted Marines will go down if proven guilty, but I'm waiting to see if the higher chain of command will be held accountable if it is proven that (as with My Lai) there was a cover-up.

But that's just my slant on things. Dry rot and ticket-punching were just two of the things that damaged the Army's efforts in Vietnam. I'd really hate to see those kinds of things crop up again on the same scale. We've already seen command micro-managing (using the video conference instead of orbiting command helicopters), and it would be tragic to see those mistakes happen all over again.

[Jedburgh]

The Economist 1 June op-ed:

...To regimes such as Iran's and Syria's, to say nothing of al-Qaeda, the torture at Abu Ghraib—like the travesty of Guantánamo—was a propaganda victory of the first order. Just possibly, America could have redeemed itself by bringing those responsible to account. But so far only the low-ranking have been punished. Donald Rumsfeld remains defence secretary despite his part in shaping a culture of contempt for the rules. George Bush's failure to hold his cronies to account for trashing his country's reputation will haunt American foreign policy for years to come. Now Haditha will be added to the melancholy litany of Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib. Marines kicking down doors and murdering men, women and children in their pyjamas: nothing could better reinforce the caricature of trigger-happy superpowerdom on the rampage.

It is, however, in America itself that Haditha may have its biggest and arguably most baneful impact. America did not quit Vietnam only because too many of its young men were dying. What counted more was the ebbing of the idea that America was at war for a purpose of which it could feel proud. As with My Lai, the events in Haditha are likely to shine a cruel light on the gap between the stated point of staying in Iraq—the bestowal and consolidation of freedom—and the grim reality, in which American soldiers are often feared and hated, and come in turn to see all Iraqis as enemies. Abu Ghraib could be written off as an aberration of the sort to be expected from low-level troops. The marines are another matter. America's finest, it will be said, were sent into the heart of darkness and exposed to horrors that made them murder. It will strengthen the arguments of those who want America to leave now.

Succumbing to those arguments would be a tragic mistake. Whatever your views on the Iraq war, America has both a moral obligation to the Iraqis and a powerful interest of its own in making sure that it hands over to a government and army that have at least half a chance of holding the place together and preventing a complete collapse into anarchy and sectarian bloodletting. Iraq's own elected leaders say that for the present American troops should stay.

In many wars, just or unjust, men commit crimes for which they should be tried and punished. The answer to Haditha is for Mr Bush at last to insist on transparency, justice and accountability. Giving up and shipping out would simply condemn many more Iraqis to a violent death.

[SWJED]

From our friend Bill Roggio (currently embedded with the Canadians in AF) at the Counterterrorism Blog - Reflections on Haditha. Bill was an embed with 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, just after they liberated the Haditha Triad region from al-Qaeda's grip during Operation Rivergate last December.

... The Marines based in the Triad, as elsewhere along the Euphrates River Valley, were fighting a tough counterinsurgency against a ruthless and often unseen enemy. al-Qaeda and the insurgency routinely used women as human shields, attacked from the middle of crowded locations, homes, schools and mosques, and showed a reckless disregard for civilian casualties. Assassinations of local tribal leaders cooperating with the Iraqi government was the norm, as were mortar, grenade, RPG and roadside bombing attacks. al-Qaeda formed military hit squads designed to provoke the Marines into violent reactions and cause civilian casualties. The al-Qaeda teams were well armed, possessed new weapons, wore body armor and were well financed.

The strict rules of engagement (ROE) the Marines had to adhere to was of great of interest to me. The rules of engagement defined the operating procedures for the Marines when patrolling, setting up checkpoints, searching homes, taking hostile fire, and reacting to ambushes or roadside bombs. When coming under fire, the Marines had to follow a predefined set of rules on the escalation of force, to ensure an inordinate amount of force was used, which can potentially alienate the population.

I was curious about how the Marines felt about operating in a difficult combat environment. And I didn't ask the officers about the Rules of Engagement, I asked the privates and lance corporals and sergeants - the Marines who walked the streets each and every day and put their our lives on the line. To a man, the Marines I spoke to in the 3/1 stated that while the strict rules of engagement often put them at greater risk of death or injury, they understood the need follow these rules. They understood the war had switched from kinetic war fighting to standard counterinsurgency operations, where the support of the civilian population is paramount to the success of the mission. I watched these young men in operation, and am proud of their professionalism.

The media will not tell you how the Marines of the 3/1 retook the Haditha Triad region during Operation Rivergate in the fall of 2005 with minimal civilian casualties. The operation was planned in such a meticulous manner and with the intention to safeguard the residents of the city of Haditha that no civilian, Marine or Iraqi casualties were taken. The media won't tell you how the Marines worked for days on end to ensure a safe environment for the Iraqi people to exercise their right to vote in the December 15 Parliamentary elections. You won't hear about how a young Marine, upon positively identifying a vehicle that was used to attack Marines and Iraqi civilians alike, chased the car, on foot, through the streets of Haqlaniyah, and held his fire while the car escaped as he feared injuring civilians. You won't hear about how,after Election Day, insurgents mortared the polling center in Barwana, and killed five children and wounded several others. The Marines of the 3/1 rushed the children to Al Asad Airbase for medical treatment, and saved the life of one Iraqi child.

You won't hear the story about Ayman, an Iraqi policeman from the city of Haditha, who fought al-Qaeda during the summer of 2005. Ayman was captured by insurgents, beaten, tortured and then had his left hand and foot cut off as punishment for his opposition to the jihadis. He was subsequently dumped in front of his home and left to die. Fearing for his family's safety, Ayman hobbled to Haditha Dam, about 4 miles away, and sought the help of the Marines of the 3/1. Ayman was taken in, and a Marine staff sergeant was able to get a doctor from the United States to send a prosthetic foot, which allowed Ayman to walk again.

These stories don't fit the preconceived story line of a military victimized, worn down and driven to depths of depravity due to a failed enterprise in Iraq, and so therefore they are not told.

The charges leveled against the Marines of Kilo Company are serious and deserve to be investigated. The Marines deserve to have judgment withheld until the investigation is completed and the results released. Prejudging these Marines, as has been done in numerous media outlets and by a sitting member of the U.S. House of Representatives, is irresponsible. No matter what the results of the investigation, anything but a charge of murder will now be viewed as whitewash. Our Marines deserve far better than this.

[SWJED]

14 June Real Clear Politics commentary - In Marines We Trust by Kathleen Parker.

... Instead of launching an aggressive PR campaign to debunk the growing impression that such incidents, if true, are par for American forces, we get a presumption of guilt and an ethics course to fix a problem that isn't a problem. The failure to communicate responsibly and strategically in this case, coupled with the rush to judgment in the international court of public opinion, has hurt not only the Marines under investigation, but also all our military men and women serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The drill is too familiar by now. The action begins with someone (apparently anyone will do) making an accusation; next come the cameras and the media saturation; and, Voila: we have a conviction before we have a formal charge. Whether the alleged perpetrators are prison guards at Abu Ghraib, lacrosse players at Duke University or Marines in Haditha, we are predisposed to assume guilt.

In Iraq, we might add to our failure to communicate a failure of confidence in ourselves and of faith in our own. Given that Haditha is dense with insurgents whose tactics do not come from the Marine Corps playbook, is it possible that they, not we, killed the civilians, or that they used them as human shields? Killing civilians, after all, is the rule among those who seek to drive the U.S. from Iraq...