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  1. #1
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    Exclamation FOB Keating attack repulsed

    Moderator's Note

    This was called 'Considerable casualties in Afghanistan' and was changed 2/12/2013 to FOB Keating attack repulsed. (Ends)


    From Michael Yon's twitter feed, beginning at about 12:43AM, EST, 10/04/09...

    Americans hit hard in Afghanistan. Casualties "considerable." I first got this more than 12 hours ago but is still hush.

    The word to me is that a base was hit hard. Little other news other than casualties "considerable."

    Nothing on the wires about a large attack.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-12-2013 at 10:43 AM. Reason: Added link. Added Mod's Note

  2. #2
    Council Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Default AP just reported

    KABUL — 8 international troops and 2 Afghans killed in attack on military outposts in Afghanistan.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...xyQ1wD9B42SEG0

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    From the NYT:

    KABUL, Oct. 4 (Reuters) - Eight U.S. troops were killed in battle after tribal militia attacked two combat outposts in a remote area in eastern Afghanistan, the military said on Sunday, the deadliest battle for U.S. troops in more than a year.

    Two Afghan soldiers were also killed in the battle, which took place in a remote area from which U.S. forces had already announced plans to withdraw as part of commander General Stanley McChrystal's strategy to focus his forces on population centres.

    Saturday's attacks were launched by militia in Nuristan province from a local mosque and a nearby village on two joint NATO and Afghan outposts, the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force said. The NATO troops in the area are American.

    "My heart goes out to the families of those we have lost and to their fellow soldiers who remained to finish the fight," Colonel Randy George, commander of the U.S. force in the eastern mountain area bordering Pakistan, said in the statement.

    "This was a complex attack in a difficult area. Both the U.S. and Afghan soldiers fought bravely together. I am extremely proud of their professionalism and bravery."

    The statement added: "coalition forces' previously announced plans to depart the area as part of a broader realignment to protect larger populations remains unchanged."
    Tribal militia?

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    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8289200.stm

    BBC, so can't speak to the actual accuracy, but here it is.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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    Dang. I was hoping that this thread would serve a placeholder to shoot down any rumors. I guess it's for real.

    This, too, just popped up a few minutes ago...
    Militant fighters streaming from a village and a mosque attacked a pair of remote outposts near the Pakistan border, killing eight American soldiers and as many as seven Afghan forces in one of the fiercest gunbattles of the troubled eight-year war.

    The Taliban claimed responsibility for the deadliest attack for coalition forces since a similar raid in July 2008 killed nine American soldiers in the same mountainous region known as a haven for al-Qaida militants. The U.S. has already said it plans to leave the remote area to focus on Afghan population centres.

    via canoe.ca
    More at the link.

    Yon said (about eight hours ago) that casualties were still coming in, even though the attack had occurred quite a while earlier. I don't know if that means walking wounded stayed behind to maintain security or if that is the reason for the disparity in ANSF casualty figures.
    Last edited by Schmedlap; 10-04-2009 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Added last paragraph

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    Default GEN McChrystal to face some questions

    According to press reports, Gen McChrystal ordered such outposts in Nuristan province closed, in order to focus troops in populated areas. It seems likely that the Taliban mounted this attack to create the impression that they are driving the U.S. Army out. We will see if they succeed with this information operation.

    As that IO battle percolates, McChrystal, whose stock price is probably dropping in the West Wing, will no doubt be asked a few questions:

    1) Why the delay closing the eastern outposts? Any plans to accelerate the closures now? And how will that look?

    2) Any connection between your new rules of engagement and the Taliban's ability to organize this attack?

    3) The President's objective is to “to disrupt, dismantle and destroy al Qaeda.” Yet you plan on abandoning the positions in Afghanistan that are closest to the al Qaeda senior leadership's suspected positions in Pakistan and al Qaeda's principle infiltration routes into Afghanistan. How will this strategy achieve the President's objective?

    ---

    Let us pause for a moment to remember the fallen, their families, and their friends.

    -Robert Haddick

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    Council Member Kevin23's Avatar
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    Default Heavy US losses in Afghan battle

    Eight American soldiers and two Afghan troops have been killed in the deadliest attack on coalition troops for more than a year, officials say.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8289200.stm

    I think this is yet another incident that goes to show that a change of tactics and strategy is needed in this part of Afghanistan.

    My thoughts are also with the familes of the fallen.
    Last edited by Kevin23; 10-04-2009 at 05:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin23 View Post
    I think this is yet another incident that goes to show that a change of tactics and strategy is needed in this part of Afghanistan.
    How so? Eight US and 7 Afghan KIA after an onslaught by around 100 or so attackers who apparently know what they're doing? That seems like a pretty good performance by the good guys. I guess it depends on one's perspective. I suspect that many Americans think that wars can and should be lopsided affairs like in the movies.
    Last edited by Schmedlap; 10-04-2009 at 09:02 PM.

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    Council Member Kevin23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmedlap View Post
    See also, earlier thread: Breaking News in Afghanistan? "Considerable" casualties?

    Moderators might want to combine the two. (Or just delete my thread, because it was a "breaking news" item that is no longer breaking - Kevin asserts a point for discussion that can go somewhere).

    On that point of discussion:


    How so? Eight US and 7 Afghan KIA after an onslaught by around 100 or so attackers who apparently know what they're doing? That seems like a pretty good performance by the good guys. I guess it depends on one's perspective. I suspect that many Americans think that wars can and should be lopsided affairs like in the movies.
    My mistake, I didn't see that a thread on this had already been started.

    I guess in terms of my comments, I thought the attack just drove home the need to reassess the situation in Afghanistan.

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    Council Member Greyhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmedlap View Post
    How so? Eight US and 7 Afghan KIA after an onslaught by around 100 or so attackers who apparently know what they're doing? That seems like a pretty good performance by the good guys. I guess it depends on one's perspective. I suspect that many Americans think that wars can and should be lopsided affairs like in the movies.
    If our objective were to hold ground or attrit enemy this would be a clear win. But there are obvious questions to be raised here about COIN...

    ...except those questions would fall into the same category with those Ken discusses.

    Because we aren't doing COIN in Nuristan, not in any real sense. We are defending remote outposts (and little beyond the Hescos) and awaiting decisions from far away. (There's part of the answer Westhawks' "1) Why the delay closing the eastern outposts?") Wait long enough and bad things happen. Bad things happen and decisions are impacted....

  11. #11
    Council Member Greyhawk's Avatar
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    Default To clarify...

    We were not waiting for something bad to happen; something bad happened while we were waiting for clarity on exactly what direction we would be going.

    That lesson will be lost in the resulting noise.
    Last edited by Greyhawk; 10-05-2009 at 12:47 AM.

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    Got an email from a friend who is on a ETT with the ANA that there had been a large fight yesterday. He was of course vague due to OPSEC, but he isn't the type to send such an email b/c of a run of the mill fight. It's his 3d tour as well, so it must have been something.

    I suspect the first reports are perhaps understating the complexity/scope/duration of the attack. And a good catch that it may be tied to Taliban IO about moving out of the remote outposts, which I called for awhile ago. We weren't really accomplishing much out there anyway. Classic case of GEN McCrystal's dilemma on "60 Minutes", where yes, things were getting better, but not at the rate they needed to be.
    "A Sherman can give you a very nice... edge."- Oddball, Kelly's Heroes
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    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    3) The President's objective is to “to disrupt, dismantle and destroy al Qaeda.” Yet you plan on abandoning the positions in Afghanistan that are closest to the al Qaeda senior leadership's suspected positions in Pakistan and al Qaeda's principle infiltration routes into Afghanistan. How will this strategy achieve the President's objective?
    I would argue that being "close to" suspected positions in no way means that those COPs influenced a thing. Anyone asking McChrystal this line of questioning doesn't get it all.

    I am reminded of the Portuguese in Mozambique, who enjoyed relative mobility when they decided to saunter forth, but spent an unbalanced amount of time secluded in their COPs. The results were almost predictable.

    Disrupting Al Qaeda is definitely germane to the discussion right now. Are we still after AQ at all, considering the instability we see in the country? Are they operating in AFG with the impunity they once enjoyed?

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