Blasphemy: Article advocates afternoon PT

[MikeF]

Why not run cross country in boots and toughen the ankles. Or a fifteen mile cross country ruck and vest march. Better yet, why not an Obstacle or Confidence Course..

Soldiering is an outdoor sport and it is not an eight to five plus structured early morning PT five day week sort of job. Too easy to forget that if one is not careful. Habits and mental conditioning can be dangerous...

We started doing combat-focused PT like this back in 2005 at the suggestion of a very smart infantry major. All running was done in the training area, and we would mix in jumping over connexes and fences to condition the boys for clearing gates and other urban structures. Almost all PT was squad/section level minus the mandatory unit "fun" runs. Once a week, combatives replaced the run. Squadron Runs typically ended after running through a training area and an obstacle course.

Additionally, officer PT consisted of 3 mile release runs tranisitioning into group competitions of an additional three miles of litter carry (after inserting an IV), LMTV tire push, Buddy Carries, until we reached the gym and maxed out repititions on the bench and hit the ropes to climb.

It was different: mentally and physically challenging. Moreover, it was fun. It worked.

Over the last two years, some SF'ers and Seals introduced me to yoga, Cross-Fit, and kettle bells as additional workouts to help repair the lower back after long tours of wearing the body armor.

The days of 8-10 mile runs are over even if we haven't realized it yet.

Plus, all that training was a good way to avoid the "thought police" (the Div CSM's minions that run around Ardennes looking for uniform violations!!!!).

v/r

Mike

[Ken White]

Over the last two years, some SF'ers and Seals introduced me to yoga, Cross-Fit, and kettle bells as additional workouts to help repair the lower back after long tours of wearing the body armor.

Yes. I'm waiting for my son to drop one his several Kettlebells on his head...

The days of 8-10 mile runs are over even if we haven't realized it yet.

Long overdue, that.

Plus, all that training was a good way to avoid the "thought police" (the Div CSM's minions that run around Ardennes looking for uniform violations!!!!).

Minions? Tommy doesn't need minions. Though I can understand why some of his predecessors did...

[Rifleman]

Glad to see more units doing combat focused PT.

But there is one good thing about early morning cardio, especially when done in a fasted state: it seems to work better for taking off weight. The theories behind this are not universally accepted but if you google "morning cardio" or "AM cardio" you should find articles that go into it. Fight trainers have known this for decades and continue with "morning roadwork" for fighters, especially those who have to make weight.

Just something to keep in mind if you have any porkys in your unit on a remedial program. Even if the rest of the unit does PT in the evening you might want to have porky come in early and knock out the miles.

[Schmedlap]

Added benefit: sick call is in the morning. PT is in the afternoon. No more missing PT due to sick call.

Good point by Rifleman in regard to Porky, though I would favor his morning PT beginning at 0830 so that his team leader isn't punished for inheriting a fat-bodied troop. Most team leaders, from what I observed, inherited their disgusting fat bodies. They were not responsible for creating them. That was particularly the case upon redeployment when rear-detachment Soldiers were reintegrated into the unit. Some of them were clearly attempting to eat their way to freedom while the adult supervision was away. For a team/section leader fresh off of a deployment to inherit one of those train wrecks was just (bad) luck of the draw.

[Ski]

I did PT in the afternoon when I was stationed in the Beltway, and have continued this "new" found process here at Leavenweorth for the last two years.

Usually go from 1600-1700, maybe a little later or even after dinner. Depends on the reading/writing schedule.

I'd much rather do it later in the day.

[jkm_101_fso]

Apparently, Fort Riley experimented with this concept a few years back...morning "work" formation at 0700 and PT from 1500-1600. It went on for a while, but as soon as the new command group came in, it went back ot 0630.

[Schmedlap]

I did PT in the afternoon when I was stationed in the Beltway, and have continued this "new" found process here at Leavenweorth for the last two years.

I hated doing PT in the mornings when I was in a maneuver unit. But when I moved to the beltway, I started voluntarily waking up even earlier to hit the gym as soon as it opened. Maybe it's because I was doing a workout that made sense for me (someone who is naturally thin) rather than a workout designed to ensure that Soldiers don't get fat.

In the beltway, I hated being in a unit where the lowest ranking guy was an E6... except when it came to PT, because it was big boy rules. The downside was that some of the kids couldn't play by the big boy rules. I was embarrassed on behalf of the Army when our unit took an APFT. Commissioned officers failing the run, doing the minimum number of pushups/situps. During one APFT, I was the only person who did a full two-minutes of each, without quitting. Unbelievable. A Major actually asked me, "why did you do the full two minutes?" I was tactful.

Those cases aside, I think there is also a lot to be said for having greater control over one's workout. Much of our PT regimen in the maneuver world was dictated by higher (division mandated combatives on Thu; Div, Bde, or Bn held group runs on Fridays; other random stuff - my personal favorite was scheduling the obstacle course for my platoon and then being locked down in the company area for a surprise urinalysis and having someone call the unit to chew out my commander because my platoon was a no-show).

Regarding other comments about combat-focused PT...

One of the obstacles to not doing more combat-focused PT is that the chain of command gets too deep into the weeds, planning much of it for you; or you plan something and then the training calender gets turned upside down. For example, I was never a fan of doing combatives for PT, but it was dictated. Combatives requires a lot of practice. I think we sacrificed developing skills by using it for PT rather than looking at it in the way that we look at marksmanship. Would you do stress shoots as a form of PT before you teach your Soldiers the fundamentals of marksmanship? That is essentially what we were doing with combatives.

[AlifBaa]

Commissioned officers failing the run, doing the minimum number of pushups/situps. During one APFT, I was the only person who did a full two-minutes of each, without quitting. Unbelievable. A Major actually asked me, "why did you do the full two minutes?" I was tactful.

This is the ugly side of the Army's cultural emphasis on "standards," and the reason I refuse to let my guys talk about minimums. Instead, I make them keep track of their personal bests, and egg them on to shave off a few seconds or get one more rep. Like riding a motorcycle, you'll end up where your eyeballs are focused.

I don't see a reason to draw a distinction between combatives and PT. What good is a skilled fighter without conditioning? As a MCMAP instructor, I consider conditioning an integral part of martial arts training. That doesn't mean my guys are in PT uniforms chanting jodies; you'll find them doing pugil stick fights while winded from the o-course, or ground fighting between rounds of calisthenics. They get way more cardio from exercise combined with the adrenaline of competition and violence...and it's not bad for developing aggression, either.

[slapout9]

kettle bells as additional workouts to help repair the lower back after long tours of wearing the body armor.

Mike

I don't think we have kettle bells in Alabama......are they like dumb bells or something??

[Ken White]

I don't think we have kettle bells in Alabama......are they like dumb bells or something??

at the bottom of this LINK.Yet another thing we copied from the Russians. The Spetsnaz used them. Some guys have three or four different sizes / weights.I'd be surprised if some of the APs at Maxwell weren't into 'em...

They've got a lot of benefits: LINK.

[Ben_0802]

We started doing combat-focused PT like this back in 2005 at the suggestion of a very smart infantry major. All running was done in the training area, and we would mix in jumping over connexes and fences to condition the boys for clearing gates and other urban structures. Almost all PT was squad/section level minus the mandatory unit "fun" runs. Once a week, combatives replaced the run. Squadron Runs typically ended after running through a training area and an obstacle course.

Love the combat focused PT! This is coming from a Marine on an Army base, but I almost never see units here conducting anything outside of runs, pu's and su's.

I am trying to expose my Lt's, both Army and Marine to different types of PT, and show them that there ways beyond running to get outstanding workouts in.

We need to train for the rigors of combat, not the 30 min it takes to run a PFT.

S/F
Ben