Law Enforcement Analysis

[Rifleman]

My personal experiences are with a small (30 sworn) municipal agency: not big city but not quite podunk Andy and Barney. In a lot of ways we are too big to be little and too little to be big.

We are mostly reactive. Proactivity is often limited to being a visible presence in the community until something is in progress. It just seems to be the nature of the beast.

Slowandsteady, my thoughts on your thoughts:

1) Reports (by analysts) that describe crimes/criminal groups, there is no "so what/now what" mindset.

Let's say the report was on an outlaw motorcycle gang and they're coming through your area on a "run." Proactivity (the "so what/now what") will be limited to increasing officer presence and making as many contacts with them as you have a legal reason to do (for traffic infractions, noise complaints, etc.) in order to field interview and ID as many as possible. A high volume of penny ante (aka "chicken s**t") traffic stops can also lead to a lot of warrant arrests but that's about the limit of proactivity. You can't just use intelligence reports that say these bikers are known to be bad dudes to have a SWAT raid on the bar they're drinking in. That would be PH (probable hunch). That darn 4th Amendment again!

2) A reluctance by middle and senior management to be more tactical in their approach, for example working with different units to develop a more detailed picture of the environment they are operating in.

It happens to be sure but see answer to #3 below. Also, sometimes politics plays a role with "different units" when it comes time to act on intelligence. For instance, we recently had some pro-life demonstrators in town and we knew from intelligence they were somewhat radical in their approach. The sheriff wanted his deputies to be seen by the community but not take much enforcement action. When it came time to make arrests the PD were the ones going hands on and getting our pictures in the paper.

3) Communication - we have had guys working different ends of the same case from the same office, and yet not realized this. I believe the challenge is getting officers comfortable that sharing information won't compromise their case/job security.

I'm sure this happens more often in large agencies but we mostly cooperate well internally as well as with the sheriff's office and to a lesser extent the highway patrol. For instance, we often have auto burglars hitting cars in the town and county in the same night and our report writing system will link the related cases so everyone is briefed. Having said that, sometimes things will fall through the cracks - just happens.

[Fuchs]

That darn 4th Amendment again!

*sigh*

I complained a lot here, with concerns that first appeared to be kind of respected as reasonable.

Few replies later, the thread has dived so quickly and so deeply downwards that a SWC member is swearing about a constitutional provision that protects citizens against arbitrariness and repression by the state.



I get it that Americans think their country is exceptional and they don't think that they need to learn from others' experiences. Yeah, sure, most of the time you guys think that your country is immune to the evil that rid history in other countries.
It's always the others. Even when you cuss about things going wrong at home, it's always the others - never it's your own responsibility to resist a current that goes into a dangerous direction.


When will you guys learn to draw a line, to respect a Rubicon instead of crossing it, no matter how small the step appears to be?

This Rubicon should be to not discuss LE issues in a forum that was meant to discuss warfare topics.


What do you guys expect will come out of this thread? Lessons learned in oppression of even most resolute political opposition in other countries that can be transferred to domestic police work?
Ever heard of Pandora's box?


Please. Lock this thread!

[Rifleman]

Guess I should have used an emocon with that line to denote humor.

Fuchs,

*sigh*

Mostly I enjoy reading your posts and think you usually make a well reasoned and positive contribution to the discussion here - but sometimes you really do take yourself too seriously.

I will explain myself to you out of courtesy for others who are reading, not because I owe you any justification.

I swore to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same. I do, including the 4th Amendment. And sometimes domestic enemies are rogue cops. I consider myself subject to King Constitution the way others in the world might consider themselves subject to a monarch. That's my true faith and allegiance.

I do not want to live in a police state and I believe in learning from the experiences of others - including early American colonists who were subject to unreasonable searches and seizures.

Regarding your signature: sometimes you do look provacative in a thoughtful way - and sometimes you just look like a ass!

[slapout9]

Guess I should have used an emocon with that line to denote humor.

Fuchs,

*sigh*

Rifleman, alot of folks just don't understand a Police sense of Humor. They just don't know what it is like out there. I have to go watch Gettysburg, trying to think of some old stuff about pro-active Police Work.

[Slowandsteady]

Let's say the report was on an outlaw motorcycle gang and they're coming through your area on a "run." Proactivity (the "so what/now what") will be limited to increasing officer presence and making as many contacts with them as you have a legal reason to do (for traffic infractions, noise complaints, etc.) in order to field interview and ID as many as possible. A high volume of penny ante (aka "chicken s**t") traffic stops can also lead to a lot of warrant arrests but that's about the limit of proactivity. You can't just use intelligence reports that say these bikers are known to be bad dudes to have a SWAT raid on the bar they're drinking in. That would be PH (probable hunch). That darn 4th Amendment again!

Definitely, there are just some situations where you're only able to give your people advanced warning, and some details on possible MO.

It happens to be sure but see answer to #3 below. Also, sometimes politics plays a role with "different units" when it comes time to act on intelligence. For instance, we recently had some pro-life demonstrators in town and we knew from intelligence they were somewhat radical in their approach. The sheriff wanted his deputies to be seen by the community but not take much enforcement action. When it came time to make arrests the PD were the ones going hands on and getting our pictures in the paper.

I've come to realize that it's as much a part of this job as any, people have all different types of approaches, and it can often depend on who is the chief.

I'm sure this happens more often in large agencies but we mostly cooperate well internally as well as with the sheriff's office and to a lesser extent the highway patrol. For instance, we often have auto burglars hitting cars in the town and county in the same night and our report writing system will link the related cases so everyone is briefed. Having said that, sometimes things will fall through the cracks - just happens.