Terrorism in the USA:threat & response

[bourbon]

A simple pipe bomb with that much of a blast effect and secondary’s intended to bounce victims back and forth is not some average bomb maker on a lone quest. They had help and these were not some ordinary pipe bombs in backpacks. It’s also clear that some of these failed devices were intended for First Responders.

Imagine how many people yesterday had backpacks on. How many put them down, discarded their trash, etc. ?

As far as fragmentation goes, detonated at ground level against a wall and direct the Sierra forward up to 50 yards low level. Claymore anyone ?

Thanks Stan, I know you can only share so much on such topics. This is helpful insight.

[Stan]

Hey Stan: They say it was not a high explosive and I think the smoke was white. Would a black powder bomb do the trick?

Hey Carl,
I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions based on a white cloud of smoke before X-spray samples are in with forensics. Black powder, that is the real stuff made of sulfur, etc., is rare these days in ammunition like shotgun shells which contain pelletized powders. These so-called smokeless powders or even pyrodex are class C vs A and among other things easier to obtain.

[Stan]

Thanks Stan, I know you can only share so much on such topics. This is helpful insight.

Glad to help where I can and there is always PM

[carl]

Hey Carl,
I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions based on a white cloud of smoke before X-spray samples are in with forensics.

Wise words. I get all wrapped up in trying to figure things out and can't stop myself.

You can buy black powder ready made here. I checked one web site and they can ship up to 50#. There is a big market for muzzle loading hunting, re-enacters and those who like to shoot black powder guns and cannon.

[Stan]

Wise words. I get all wrapped up in trying to figure things out and can't stop myself.

You can buy black powder ready made here. I checked one web site and they can ship up to 50#. There is a big market for muzzle loading hunting, re-enacters and those who like to shoot black powder guns and cannon.

No worries, we all have our days !

All you need is some hot water and a little of this and that, and you still get basic black powder with less risk of blowing yourself up

50 pounds is a lot of Sierra. Wonder why we can't keep the criminals from playing around

[carl]

Stan:

They deliver it Fed-Ex ground to an actual house, no PO Box, and they require a name and a birthday. So that may discourage the riff-raff. Of course if you were planning on clearing out of the country...

If it was low order, doesn't that mean if properly done, there may be no record of commercial purchase? Mixing up black powder yourself or maybe matchheads even, wouldn't leave much of a trail to follow.

[ganulv]

As soon as I heard about the explosions my thought was that it might have had as much to do with Tax Day and Patriots’ Day as with the Marathon.

[bourbon]

Did the Boston Marathon Bomber Time the Explosions to Guarantee the Most Possible Casualties?, by Chris Kirk. Slate, April 16, 2013.

[carl]

As soon as I heard about the explosions my thought was that it might have had as much to do with Tax Day and Patriots’ Day as with the Marathon.

If it was directed against the gov instead of the Americans, a gov facility would be a much more likely target I think.

Besides, nobody much outside MA, ME and WI has ever heard of Patriots Day.

[ganulv]

Besides, nobody much outside MA, ME and WI has ever heard of Patriots Day.

Which may or may not be suggestive. (PD is very much a “real” holiday in Mass—banks are open, but schools and state offices are closed.)

[Dayuhan]

Did the Boston Marathon Bomber Time the Explosions to Guarantee the Most Possible Casualties?, by Chris Kirk. Slate, April 16, 2013.

At this point we don't know if the devices were timed or detonated by cell phone. In fact we know so little at this point that speculation is just that - speculation. I know the impulse to speculate is overwhelming, but there's neither a basis nor a need for assumptions or conclusions.

[Steve Blair]

If it was directed against the gov instead of the Americans, a gov facility would be a much more likely target I think.

Besides, nobody much outside MA, ME and WI has ever heard of Patriots Day.

I'd second this, if we're calling stuff in from the sidelines. I'd also postulate that most Americans outside of a specific socioeconomic circle really don't care about the Marathon. If you wanted to hit "heartland America" where it hurt, you'd go for NASCAR or NCAA football. We also shouldn't assume that the bombs went off when they were supposed to.

Actually, some of this reminded me of the old-school IRA stuff. And after all, this was only decided on Monday. Not saying that it's necessarily linked to this, mind, but some folks have long memories and not everything that happens today has to be about what happened today (or even yesterday).

[Steve Blair]

At this point we don't know if the devices were timed or detonated by cell phone. In fact we know so little at this point that speculation is just that - speculation. I know the impulse to speculate is overwhelming, but there's neither a basis nor a need for assumptions or conclusions.

Quite. There's been plenty of uninformed blather so far.

[carl]

I'd second this, if we're calling stuff in from the sidelines. I'd also postulate that most Americans outside of a specific socioeconomic circle really don't care about the Marathon. If you wanted to hit "heartland America" where it hurt, you'd go for NASCAR or NCAA football. We also shouldn't assume that the bombs went off when they were supposed to.

Most Americans don't care much about the Boston Marathon or know much about it, but is that true about people overseas? I don't know. NASCAR might be a more lucrative target but how many overseas people know about it? Again, I don't know.

(I was just thinking too that maybe the South scares foreigners, violent rednecks and all that. I know that if you tell people overseas you are from Chicago they can be just a little scared of that. All those movies had an effect.)

Perhaps all this talking about this is to no point, but it is entertaining, sort of like the old men sitting around the general store discussing the world. Most of us around here are old.

[ganulv]

I'd second this, if we're calling stuff in from the sidelines. I'd also postulate that most Americans outside of a specific socioeconomic circle really don't care about the Marathon. If you wanted to hit "heartland America" where it hurt, you'd go for NASCAR or NCAA football. We also shouldn't assume that the bombs went off when they were supposed to.

I wasn’t necessarily suggesting that the date was significant for the American public at large, but rather than it might have been significant for whoever planned and carried out the attack. Forensic psychologists probably have a term for that, though I don’t know what it would be.

[TheCurmudgeon]

As soon as I heard about the explosions my thought was that it might have had as much to do with Tax Day and Patriots’ Day as with the Marathon.

If you were a home grown group or individual who wanted to "start a revolution" in the US against the government Patriots Day is the perfect day to do it - the day that Paul Revere made his famous ride almost to Concord where the local militia fired the "shot heard round the world" - it would have huge significance to a US based anti-government group.

[carl]

If you were a home grown group or individual who wanted to "start a revolution" in the US against the government Patriots Day is the perfect day to do it - the day that Paul Revere made his famous ride almost to Concord where the local militia fired the "shot heard round the world" - it would have huge significance to a US based anti-government group.

There are two things wrong with this view (or my view may turn out to be completely wrong).

First is, why would anybody would wanted to strike at the gov, not strike at the gov? Why blow up average people? That would be alienating the prime audience.

Second, most of the people in the country never heard of Patriots Day. I never did until yesterday and I thought it was one of those contrived 3 day weekend holidays like Presidents Day. It might have huge significance in MA but in OH or IL people never heard of it.

[slapout9]

As far as breaking out the class-struggle lenses? I wouldn't consider most Kenyan pro-marathoners to rich and powerful.

Sorry, that wasn't what I was getting at. Having worked on both Public and Private Security details they are hard Targets compared to Joe or Jane Doe. So my point was supposed to be that he/she/group X/or whatever went for the most vulnerable group of Targets, which was the general public in this case.

[slapout9]

the daily foot-traffic at the boylston st starbucks had the highest concentration of attractive women in all of new england. Someone detonated a bomb in front of it.

I'm thinking ugly chicks are responsible.

:d:d:d don't know why the smiley faces didn't come up!

[slapout9]

If you wanted to hit "heartland America" where it hurt, you'd go for NASCAR or NCAA football.

Except NASCAR and NCAA football venues are much harder Targets than a 26 plus mile open air type event.