The Men Who Stare at Goats

[Dr. C]

Reading The Men Who Stare at Goats (2004) by Jon Ronson in anticipation of the film opening November 6, starring George Clooney, Ewan McGregor, Jeff Bridges, and Kevin Spacey. It's supposed to be based on a true story about a reporter's search to learn more about the U.S. Army's First Earth Battalion, SF guys who could stare at goats and walk through walls. I think I'm the first person to post in this thread that I'm reading the book. Anyone else reading it and taking it seriously? Offended by it? Entertained?

[oblong]

Reading The Men Who Stare at Goats (2004) by Jon Ronson in anticipation of the film opening November 6, starring George Clooney, Ewan McGregor, Jeff Bridges, and Kevin Spacey. It's supposed to be based on a true story about a reporter's search to learn more about the U.S. Army's First Earth Battalion, SF guys who could stare at goats and walk through walls. I think I'm the first person to post in this thread that I'm reading the book. Anyone else reading it and taking it seriously? Offended by it? Entertained?

I read the book a couple of years ago. I found it entertaining, but if any part of it is true, God help us.

One thing that I found interesting is that there's a person in there called Mr. B, wh allegedly had all sorts of psychic powers. It's pretty obvious who Mr. B is, so I wonder why he didn't simply use the man's name.

[Dr. C]

I read the book a couple of years ago. I found it entertaining, but if any part of it is true, God help us.

One thing that I found interesting is that there's a person in there called Mr. B, wh allegedly had all sorts of psychic powers. It's pretty obvious who Mr. B is, so I wonder why he didn't simply use the man's name.

Not so obvious to me, so who is Mr. B?

[oblong]

The information he includes about Mr. B indicates he's talking about a Delta Force member convicted of several rapes in the late 1980s. Again, he never actually names him. But unless there are multiple serial rapists who fit that description, the name is pretty easy to find.

[MikeF]

The information he includes about Mr. B indicates he's talking about a Delta Force member convicted of several rapes in the late 1980s. Again, he never actually names him. But unless there are multiple people who fit that description, the name is pretty easy to find.

Is there anything left true in this world? I haven't read the book, but I was looking forward to the movie.

Mike

[oblong]

I hesitated before posting this because I know the author is controversial among other former Delta members and because, well, the piece is sure to anger people, but it does tell you a little a bit about the man whose biography seems to match some of the details of Ronson's Mr. B.

http://freedomroad.org/content/view/163/69/lang,en/

Ronson never explicitly says who Mr. B is, but he gives enough information to lead those familiar with this case to believe it's the same person.

He also never directly claims that Mr. B can make himself invisible or that the government lets him out of prison to perform secret missions. He simply says soldiers have told him those things.

[Zack]

I was very surprised that he made it almost to the end of the essay before mentioning Marx.

[William F. Owen]

Not read the book, but I suspect BS. When I was at the LRRP School in 88 I met an old time SF Team guy who had done some weird experimental training back in the late 70's early 80's. Some of it was all pretty banal - sleep deprivation, meditation versus low temperatures etc. Bottom line, only a small number of folks saw benefit. It couldn't be taught, and it was no where near an exact science, so great if your a rich middle aged divorcee from up-state NY, but BS for an Army. I wait to be convinced!

[oblong]

I don't know which part of the book worries me most. The claim that the Army may use a serial rapist capable of becoming invisible for secret missions. Or the claim that the Army had a major general so convinced that he could walk through walls that tried, and failed, repeatedly to do so. I know which one I find more believable.

[Corto]

There is another person mentioned in Ronson's book named Guy Savelli, who actually laid claim to the "death stare" ability that the title of the film is derived from. He is a martial arts instructor in Ohio, who claims to have been trained by an Indonesian master.

As a prospective student once long ago, Savelli showed me video of Special Forces soldiers using his techniques and documentation carried out by a UNC researcher of the effects of his "death stare" on the goats who were used by SF medics for training. All I seem to remember is that Savelli was proud in the changes of the heart rates in the goats (as documented) and he never claimed to have brought one down.

There was also quite a bit of documentation showing Savelli's relationship with Colonel Nick Rowe, former POW and founder of the SF's SERE school. (Rowe was murdered in the Philippines in 1989). According to Savelli, Rowe somehow found him and was so impressed with Savelli's brand of martial arts (according to Savelli, his martial arts techniques were the closest thing that Rowe had seen to what his Vietnamese captors had practiced) that he brought him down to Fort Bragg to train SF personnel.

There were several members of the local Ohio Special Forces Association (Chapter 45 The Smoking Gun, if I recall) who used to take classes with Savelli. There were plenty of photos around his studio of Savelli at Ft. Bragg showing SF people his technique....and video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zKGx-HWIvU

A SF Vietnam vet once told me that Savelli had inflated his claims about his connections with the SF Community and the SERE school. The Special Forces eventually gave Savelli a "request" to cease and desist promoting himself in that manner.

[William F. Owen]

As a prospective student once long ago, Savelli showed me video of Special Forces soldiers using his techniques and documentation carried out by a UNC researcher of the effects of his "death stare" on the goats who were used by SF medics for training. All I seem to remember is that Savelli was proud in the changes of the heart rates in the goats (as documented) and he never claimed to have brought one down.

So staring at a goat, in a intense fashion, can distress the goat to the degree where it's heart rate increases? I think I can do that.

Alternatively, if the heart rate decreases perhaps the goat was merely getting bored!!

[oblong]

There is another person mentioned in Ronson's book named Guy Savelli, who actually laid claim to the "death stare" ability that the title of the film is derived from. He is a martial arts instructor in Ohio, who claims to have been trained by an Indonesian master.

As a prospective student once long ago, Savelli showed me video of Special Forces soldiers using his techniques and documentation carried out by a UNC researcher of the effects of his "death stare" on the goats who were used by SF medics for training. All I seem to remember is that Savelli was proud in the changes of the heart rates in the goats (as documented) and he never claimed to have brought one down.

There was also quite a bit of documentation showing Savelli's relationship with Colonel Nick Rowe, former POW and founder of the SF's SERE school. (Rowe was murdered in the Philippines in 1989). According to Savelli, Rowe somehow found him and was so impressed with Savelli's brand of martial arts (according to Savelli, his martial arts techniques were the closest thing that Rowe had seen to what his Vietnamese captors had practiced) that he brought him down to Fort Bragg to train SF personnel.

There were several members of the local Ohio Special Forces Association (Chapter 45 The Smoking Gun, if I recall) who used to take classes with Savelli. There were plenty of photos around his studio of Savelli at Ft. Bragg showing SF people his technique....and video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zKGx-HWIvU

A SF Vietnam vet once told me that Savelli had inflated his claims about his connections with the SF Community and the SERE school. The Special Forces eventually gave Savelli a "request" to cease and desist promoting himself in that manner.

According to the book, as a test of his powers, 30 numbered goats were led into a room and Savelli was supposed to focus on one of them, say No. 16. Ronson says one of the goats did fall over and die, but it wasn't the one Savelli was staring at. He says that Savelli also accidentally killed his pet hamster by staring at it too long.