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Thread: Gunmen attack Fort Hood, Texas

  1. #21
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapout9 View Post
    Further details. The 2 "suspects" have been released. The Major was apparently against the Wars in Iraq and A'stan and wanted out of the Army. He was also taunted by family and friends when he wanted to join the Army after 911.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews
    More details. He had been put on probation for proselytizing about the Muslim faith to patients and colleagues.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...96&ft=1&f=1001

  2. #22
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    Default Pays to go slow ....

    This story may have some twists and turns. But for information that we do not know now, MAJ Hasan comes up pretty much All-American:

    - graduate of Virginia Tech University (ironically) with a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997, where he was ROTC.

    - medical degree from the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001.

    - Walter Reed, internship, residency and a fellowship.

    US-born to Palestinian migrants who both came to the US when young. Both parents died before 9/11 - source:

    OBIT
    Roanoke Times, The (VA) - Saturday, April 18, 1998

    HASAN , Malik Awadallah, 52, passed away Thursday, April 16, 1998, at his home in Vinton. He was born in Palestine on August 7, 1946, and emigrated to the United States at age 16, spending most of his life in Virginia. He moved to Roanoke in 1985 and began a successful business career. He is best remembered for his cheerfulness, honesty and kindness toward everyone. He owned the infamous Capitol Restaurant on the market for many years. Most recently, he established the Mount Olive Grill and Bar and was renovating the Community Grocery on Elm Avenue. He is survived by his wife, Hanan; three sons, Nidal , Anas and Eyad; a sister; four brothers; 33 nieces and nephews; 37 great-nieces and great-nephews, and scores of extended family. He will be deeply missed by all who knew him. Funeral services will be held at 10:30 a.m. Sunday, April 19, at Everly Funeral Home in Fairfax. Interment will follow in National Memorial Park in Falls Church. Friends may call the funeral home at (703) 385-1110.

    OBIT - HASAN , HANAN ISMAIL, (NORA)
    Roanoke Times, The (VA) - Thursday, May 31, 2001

    HASAN , Hanan Ismail, (Nora), 49, passed away Wednesday, May 30, 2001, surrounded by her loved ones. She was born in Palestine January 15, 1952 and came to the United States as a young girl. She moved to Roanoke in 1986 after her husband, the late Malik Hasan , came here the year before to begin what would be a successful business venture for the entire family. Nora became infamous in Roanoke for her leadership in running the Capitol Restaurant, formerly located on the Market. She was known for her ability to keep sometimes rowdy customers out of trouble and always had a warm meal for someone who otherwise would not have anything to eat that evening. She was also a major figure at the Community Grocery Store and in the establishment of the Mount Olive Grill and Bar. She was preceded in death by her husband three years ago. She is survived by her three sons, Nidal , Anas, and Eyad; her parents; six sisters; two brothers; 29 nieces and nephews; 2 great-nieces; and scores of extended family. She will be greatly missed by all those who knew her. Funeral services and prayers will be held May 31 at Dar Al Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church at 1 p.m. Interment will follow in National Memorial Park. Please send condolences to the Hasan Family c / o Community Grocery, 124 Elm Avenue, SW, Roanoke, Va. 24016.
    So far, so good. Great gaps have to be filled in this puzzle

    --------------------------
    The rumors of MAJ Hasan's death seem to have been greatly exaggerated.

    So, we may see a UCMJ case to follow - with sworn testimony and the rest of the elements of a court-martial.

  3. #23
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Suspect appears to have popped up on FBI's radar 6 months ago.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews


    My hunch, within the next few days evidence will surface of a detailed plan of attack.

  4. #24
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    Default The present blog evidence

    A “NidalHasan” wrote the following - secondary source:

    There was a grenade thrown amongs a group of American soldiers. One of the soldiers, feeling that it was to late for everyone to flee jumped on the grave with the intention of saving his comrades. Indeed he saved them. He inentionally took his life (suicide) for a noble cause i.e. saving the lives of his soldier. To say that this soldier committed suicide is inappropriate. Its more appropriate to say he is a brave hero that sacrificed his life for a more noble cause. Scholars have paralled this to suicide bombers whose intention, by sacrificing their lives, is to help save Muslims by killing enemy soldiers. If one suicide bomber can kill 100 enemy soldiers because they were caught off guard that would be considered a strategic victory. Their intention is not to die because of some despair. The same can be said for the Kamikazees in Japan. They died (via crashing their planes into ships) to kill the enemies for the homeland. You can call them crazy i you want but their act was not one of suicide that is despised by Islam. So the scholars main point is that “IT SEEMS AS THOUGH YOUR INTENTION IS THE MAIN ISSUE” and Allah (SWT) knows best.
    primary source 1 and primary source 2.

    Same guy ? - the Internet tracks and trails, and his computer (if still containing data), will tell the tale.

    Still many large gaps in how we get from All-American Boy to mass killer.

    ----------------------------
    PS: After watching a few hours of media on this, one concludes that firearms knowledge is not a requisite for TV reporters. My heavens, the man had a "semi-automatic pistol" which accounted for the large number of casualties. And so it goes .....
    Last edited by jmm99; 11-06-2009 at 05:12 AM.

  5. #25
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Go to the link below and click on Outlandish comments made. Appears he had been the subject of an unofficial Army investigation for comments about his opposition to the War according to a retired Lt. Col. who worked with the suspect.


    http://www.foxnews.com/

  6. #26
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    Default Yup,

    I listened to LTC Lee's interview when it first aired. He seemed credible. He told of direct statements from MAJ Hasan - as well as second and third hand statements. All of those will have to be tracked back to the original sources.

    Still many pieces missing.

    PS: The pieces have little to do with the salient evidence of the crimes - that will be obvious and beyond a reasonable doubt. The pieces have to do with his motivation.
    Last edited by jmm99; 11-06-2009 at 05:58 AM.

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    Default Another case of SJS?

    Hearing about this first thing this morning made me numb .. and reminded me of something I once read...



    http://www.danielpipes.org/3450/sudd...north-carolina

  8. #28
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    Default "Quiet, awkward type"


  9. #29
    Council Member MikeF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyhawk View Post
    This quote jumped out at me:

    While he worked to aid people scarred by war, that work in turn scarred Hasan.
    It's eerily familiar to what I've read while studying the non-religious female suicide bombers in Diyala.

    Mike

  10. #30
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    Default spontaneous Jihad Syndrome

    Quote Originally Posted by Tukhachevskii View Post
    Hearing about this first thing this morning made me numb .. and reminded me of something I once read...

    http://www.danielpipes.org/3450/sudd...north-carolina
    My take on spontaneous jihad syndrome in general:

    1. Its not that sudden. I think there are usually warning signs. It seems like there were some signs here too.
    2. MOST Muslims are not at some special risk of exploding all of a sudden. But loners and misfits who have joined a conservative/orthodox Islamic center or group and turned more religious ARE a high risk group. Those who are deeply religious but otherwise well adjusted are NOT a high risk group. But a turn towards orthodoxy could be a warning signal (sensitive, but not specific) because there IS a subtext of solidarity and religious conflict in the medieval theology of Islam (as there may have been in other medieval ideologies or even modern ones, the difference is that this "extremism" is still part of mainstream Muslim theology whereas it has already been pushed to the fringe in many other religious traditions...the saving grace is, the theology is not known to most mainstream muslims in any detail. sounds confusing, but its true).
    3. But these signals may be ignored out of a concern not to appear "islamophobic".
    4. The real "islamophobes" like Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer are correct in saying that literal adhesion to orthodox Islamic theology (not "extremist", just orthodox) is likely to include a mixture of Islamic solidarity, dislike for infidels, desire to fight in the way of Allah, etc. They are incorrect in assuming that all Muslims adhere to medieval injunctions about Jihad and fighting the infidels or that all Muslims are capable of ignoring more immediate secular interests and taking up the banner of jihad at a moment's notice. I suspect they are biased by their own agenda (usually pro-zionist, in some cases extremist Christian) and would like to advance particular foreign policy goals (like making the Israeli occupation permanent). but the bottom line is that while they are not unbiased messengers (who is?), they are closer to the truth when it comes to medieval Islamic theology than the Karen Armstrong types.
    5. I guess what I am pushing is the idea that common sense CAN actually be a guide here. There is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater and equally there is no need to be willfully blind to warning signs. And that biased agenda pushers on BOTH sides of this debate have obscured common sense options. Islamists operating out of Saudi supported Islamic centers are NOT a majority of American Muslims, but they have disproportionate share of media exposure as "muslim spokesmen". At the same time, people like Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer have a definite foreign policy agenda and it suits them to malign all Muslims (no matter how "secular") as long as they suspect them of Palestinian sympathies. Their warnings need to be heard keeping this in view.
    6. I am still hopeful that common sense will prevail.
    7. All nutcases cannot be stopped beforehand. Some surprises will always happen. There is no risk-free society, with or without muslims.

    (Added by moderator: Discussion on this is on: http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=8890 )
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-06-2009 at 11:57 PM. Reason: Add mod comment and link

  11. #31
    Council Member Greyhawk's Avatar
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    Default Not to make light...

    But I fear we're going to soon have something called "Pre-TSD" as an identified psychiatric condition.

    MikeF, I think there will be much chicken/egg debate regarding the doc. But I'd like to hear more about the suicide bomber angle. I take it you're saying a "caregiver" instinct was exploited to actually influence behavior towards something counter to the expected norm.

  12. #32
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    just follow the rings. Pay attention to ring 2....belief system.

    goto my post #18.
    http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=8773
    Last edited by slapout9; 11-06-2009 at 06:38 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyhawk View Post
    But I fear we're going to soon have something called "Pre-TSD" as an identified psychiatric condition.

    MikeF, I think there will be much chicken/egg debate regarding the doc. But I'd like to hear more about the suicide bomber angle. I take it you're saying a "caregiver" instinct was exploited to actually influence behavior towards something counter to the expected norm.
    This dude is not a victim, and I think that we hamper ourselves with all these labelings about disorders. In some ways, modern pyschology is about as modern as the army personnel system.

    The caregiver instict is not valid. We have countless nurses, cops, and soldiers that are care-givers and don't snap and go postal.

    I've been sorting through some thoughts about the suicide-bomber stuff. I may eventually incorporate it into an article. Right now, I'm probably gonna read up on some SBW and see how it fits.

    Mike

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    Questions I have after reflecting for a day:

    1. His Chain of Command. Why was he being forced to deploy when (already in hindsight) their were numerous signals he was unfit, and a danger to other troops? It flows into the larger issue of the stress placed upon the services, particulary the USMC and Army, to provide the forces necessary for two wars, plus our other ongoing responsibilities. While I've seen this occur with rifle units, where Marines on the edge, who really shouldn't go back, do because there is no magic "Dr's note" and the units are under stress to find the bodies to flesh out their numbers. Haven't seen/heard it as much as a few years ago. But few realize it spreads beyond just the grunts. Two years ago, a Navy psychiatrist gave me the percentage of doctors the Navy was short in his profession. I don't want to quote the percentage because I can't recall the exact number, but it was shockingly, shockingly low. They did not have the bodies to offer the necessary services. Whether the Army psychiatry corps was similiary understaffed, and whether that caused them to cut corners and force this person to deploy when he should have been seperated from service is a question that needs to be asked.

    2. Was this jihadist/religious/political statement, a result of the mental trauma from working with (it appears, but not confirmed by any means) numbers of troops with PTSD, another mental condition, or a combination of these factors? I've seen first hand how draining it is, both mentally, morally and physically on the providers who help these soldiers, sailors and Marines. It is not a figment of imagination or "physcho babble" as some idiot JAG was referring to last night on Larry King. It's real. But whether that was a contributing factor should be of interest if no other reason than...

    3. What will be his reply to whatever charges are brought in court (military or civilian TBD)? If he really has been working for an extensive period of time with PTSD troops, undoubtably he has heard some disturbing, highly disturbing stories. Would he seek to introduce evidence of this as some sort of mental capacity defense or as mitigation at any sentencing. Beyond the legal questions of his doctor/client relationship, what if he uses a trial to turn the "issue" somehow to the conduct of our troops during the war?

    So early, but this could turn a truely awful event and drag it through all kinds of worse. I hope not.

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    My only confusion on this issue is why it has prompted discussion of suicide, PTSD, and stress on our military.

    From what I've gathered, this is a guy who never deployed and then went on a murderous rampage.

    At least I haven't heard anyone blame Bush or the NRA... yet.

  16. #36
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    It is not PTSD.....it is his Belief System. And that has nothing to do with Islam. Whenever a personal believes that violence is an acceptable solution to a problem..... an attack will occur unless the original motive is dealt with. That is why after all the backround work is done it will be obvious that an attack was coming but no one did anything.....most organizations never deal with the Original Motive For War as CvC would say......that was for you Wilf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmedlap View Post
    At least I haven't heard anyone blame Bush or the NRA... yet.

    Ask and yea shall receive.

    Seriously, I think he "switched sides." I think he felt - and I'm just talking about his thoughts in his mind, not saying I or anyone else agree with them - that he believed he had to choose between his religion and his country. A choice he tried to avoid by getting out of the Army, and by asking not to be deployed.

    Based on some of the articles I've read, it appears as though he used to go to the Mosque in his uniform. Then he switched to wearing what for lack of the correct term I'll call "Islamic attire" around the base. A clear statement on his part.

    (I could be wrong. I haven't heard much about his victims. Might change my mind if it turns out he went after people who he personally had trouble with as opposed to soldiers about to deploy.)

    Anyway, that's why I always thought "You're for us or against us" was a dumb idea. "Don't kill us and we won't kill you" seems like a much better message. Keep the people who don't like us or BinLaden on the sidelines. There's enough of us already. Even one more of them is too many.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 11-06-2009 at 11:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMetz View Post
    Sometimes it takes someone without deep experience to think creatively.

  18. #38
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    Default Belief System - yes

    but as to this:

    from Slap
    And that has nothing to do with Islam.
    "nothing to do with Islam" is not something we should assume. See above post by omarali50[*], which is excellent.

    The simplest explanation is that the man was quite sane, spent time and meditation in developing the concept of defensive jihad (preventing non-Muslim troops from setting foot in Muslim lands) ala the extreme Salafists (e.g., AQ), and put that developed concept into practice.

    Some (many ?) will not be able to handle that explanation if it turns out to be so. It would be a case of absolute betrayal by a field grade officer - treason in a very real sense even though he is unlikely to be charged with that.

    An easier explanation for many to handle is the nutjob who snapped. Boondoggle (nice to see a post from you, ancient JA ) is not endorsing that, but he does explain how that explanation could be developed.

    I am waiting for the CID and FBI folks to complete their investigation - and I expect we will also have tons of media investigation and the inevitable punditry.

    -------------------------
    [*] Nicely paragraphed. Now if you would put a space between the paragraphs, they would even be kinder on my old eyes.

  19. #39
    Council Member slapout9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmm99 View Post
    The simplest explanation is that the man was quite sane, spent time and meditation in developing the concept of defensive jihad (preventing non-Muslim troops from setting foot in Muslim lands) ala the extreme Salafists (e.g., AQ), and put that developed concept into practice.
    1-Islam as a religion had nothing to do with it......as a belief system to justify his actions had a lot to do with it. See the difference?

  20. #40
    Small Wars Journal SWJED's Avatar
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    Default Hasan’s Officer Record Brief

    Hasan’s Officer Record Brief was posted at This ain't hell, but you can see it from here.

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