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Thread: Muslim Brotherhood

  1. #61
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    A short column by Lorenzo Vidino, a SME on the Muslim Brotherhood; in which he succinctly explains the UK governments review as:
    .... a genuine effort to better understand the group and redesign Whitehall’s strategy towards it as the world’s most significant Islamist movement.
    Link:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/1...otherhood.html
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  2. #62
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    An update on the UK government's review of the Muslim Brotherhood, which in the end effectively "sat on the fence" despite pressure from several foreign nations:http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-idea-analysis

    Sir John Jenkins the report's author writes irregular articles and IIRC one, maybe two have posted on the forum.
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  3. #63
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default An elusive global fraternity

    Thanks to a "lurker" for the pointer to The Economist's easier to read report and with a link to the published UK government report's summary.http://www.economist.com/blogs/erasm...im-brotherhood

    The report:https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...n_Findings.pdf

    A fine balancing act for some, as The Economist cites the two author's views:
    In a relatively tough judgment, one of the report's co-authors, Sir John Jenkins, concluded:

    For the most part, the Muslim Brotherhood have preferred non-violent incremental change on the grounds of expediency, often on the basis that political opposition will disappear when the process of Islamisation is complete. But they are prepared to countenance violence—including, from time to time, terrorism—where gradualism is ineffective.
    But the report's other co-author, Charles Farr, offered a more lenient view of Brotherhood-inspired groups working in Britain. He found that "such groups had in the past held out the prospect and ambition of an Islamic state in this country as elsewhere" but went on to insist that "there was no indication that the Muslim Brotherhood still held this view or at least openly promoted an Islamic state here."
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  4. #64
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    An interesting review of the Muslim Brotherhood, under the theme of 'Is the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization or a firewall against violent extremism?' by a US academic:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/03/07/is-the-muslim-brotherhood-a-terrorist-organization-or-a-firewall-against-violent-extremism/?

    He concludes:
    The Muslim Brotherhood’s firewall against extremism, therefore, was a very real thing in the decade following 9/11. It was sustained by the seeming success of the strategic choices by the leadership, a robust organizational structure able to enforce internal discipline and the socialization of its members into the organization’s norms. All three of the key mechanisms by which the firewall operated have now dramatically eroded.
    This does not mean that the Brotherhood has been or is becoming a terrorist organization. It does mean that earlier assessments of its ability to play a role as a firewall against violent extremism need to be updated.
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  5. #65
    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    Well... can't talk about MBs at such levels. Only observe that in the case of Egypt, even members of the Brotherhood eventually turned against it - and supported Sisi's (Saudi-sponsored) coup - because of their conclusion that the MB-run gov went 'too far', i.e. 'applied terror against own population'.

    That most of them (members of MB that turned against the MB) eventually landed in various of Sisi's prisons is a different story, of course...

  6. #66
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Crowbat,

    That story is nearly as good as that by ex-Jihadists whose violence had ended, with individuals bound by a signed agreement with the Egyptian state (via Internal Security agencies) to refrain from political activity. When the overthrow of the Mubarek regime began they were asking can we join in or not? Apparently their leadership IIRC stated "stay at home".

    One wonders what happened to them afterwards, let alone with Sisi takng power.
    davidbfpo

  7. #67
    Council Member CrowBat's Avatar
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    In the Middle East, most of such stories end in some prison. That's the core problem with that part of the world.

  8. #68
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Are they revolutionaries now?

    An article from The Hudson Institute, which I understand is conservative in outlook and by Mokhtar Awad (from GWU and other places).

    The author earlier on writes:
    ...it is important to carefully examine the relationship between one of the oldest Islamist movements in the world and violence over the past four years, and what ideological revisions have taken place. This paper will focus more on the latter, specifically related to a recent book authored by a group of Muslim Brotherhood and allied Islamist scholars, which was sanctioned by the then leadership of the organization inside Egypt, titled The Jurisprudence of Popular Resistance to the Coup. The book provides a critical insight into how some scholars have successfully attempted to reconcile the group’s methodology with violence.
    It ends citing the book's author:
    The Muslim Brotherhood inside [Egypt] has revised itself since the beginning of 2014. It is a reformist organization that believes in the constitutional approach, gradualist reform, and participated in many elections, and so on. Then after that, the Muslim Brotherhood changed to [adopt] revolutionary thought. This change did not come overnight. This is a change that [is based] on much literature [produced] inside the group, meetings, and workshops. The revolutionary transformation is now in every Muslim Brotherhood household, in every Brotherhood Shu’ba (local branch), and no can, whomever they may be, extinguish this revolutionary thought. This is the transformation. The Muslim Brothers have indeed changed.
    Link:https://www.hudson.org/research/1378...im-brotherhood
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 07-29-2017 at 09:57 PM. Reason: 51,275v
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  9. #69
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default The rise and fall of the Muslim Brotherhood

    A book review in the FT of a new book 'The Muslim Brotherhood and the West: A History of Emnity and Engagement' by Martyn Frampton, Harvard University Press and one sentence:
    His book fills a crucial gap in the literature and will be essential reading not just for scholars, but for anyone seeking to understand the ever-problematic relationship between religion and politics in today’s Middle East.
    Link:https://www.ft.com/content/0fa5736e-...b-2958fde95e5e

    No reviews yet on:https://www.amazon.com/Muslim-Brothe...artyn+frampton

    No in the UK:https://www.amazon.co.uk/Muslim-Brot...artyn+frampton
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 02-20-2018 at 11:20 AM. Reason: 61,774v
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  10. #70
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default Tactical engagement: wise words

    A belated discovery of an article by Sir John Jenkins, a retired UK diplomat and co-author of an official review of the Muslim Brotherhood - that was not published. Here is a sample passage:
    But I cannot think of a single example where Western diplomatic or any other sort of engagement has produced any change in the position of any political Islamist. Deniable channels of communication may sometimes be wise, for example when we have kidnappings to resolve or to ensure the physical security of diplomats (both of which we had to do in Gaza when I was HM Consul General in Jerusalem).
    I’ve seen this movie before. People sometimes say that we need to identify moderates inside such organisations and detach them by engagement from their more extreme colleagues. Again, I can’t think of a single example where this has actually happened. So-called moderates rarely represent the core of any Islamist operation. In conflict they are dominated by their armed wings. And in any case, most Islamist groups from the Muslim Brotherhood onwards have a history of expelling, not accommodating, reformists.
    Link:https://www.conservativehome.com/pla...islamists.html
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 03-21-2018 at 09:37 AM. Reason: 63,639v
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  11. #71
    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    That is an excellent find David, for a number of reasons.

  12. #72
    Council Member davidbfpo's Avatar
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    Default The Muslim Brotherhood and the West: A History of Enmity and Engagement

    A video (1h 3m) of the book launch and discussion @ Policy Exchange on June 18th:
    Policy Exchange’s Co-head of Extremism and Security Dr Martyn Frampton (author), provided an overview of the charged relationship between one of the world’s largest political Islamist movements and the Western powers. He was joined for a discussion by chairman of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee Tom Tugendhat MP and Sir John Jenkins, former British Ambassador to Saudi Arabia.
    Link:https://policyexchange.org.uk/pxeven...nd-engagement/

    Having met Sir John Jenkins once, when I was impressed, hence he appears on the Forum at times. Not so sure about the author or MP.
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 06-25-2018 at 02:47 PM. Reason: 81,649v up by 18k in three months
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