Explosive device set off aboard airliner at Detroit Wayne International Airport

[pjmunson]

Whether we are talking about CT, COIN, other threats, people always talk about how we need to reorganize, retrain, etc, to deal with the new age threat. Even if any of that would ultimately be helpful, we are never going to get anywhere until our bureaucracies and their promotion mechanisms start selecting out the guys who say, "I know how to fix this. We'll just make everyone stay seated with their hands on their laps for the last hour of the flight." More importantly, the systems need to select out all of the sycophants who sit through that meeting nodding, smiling, and stroking the boss rather than saying, "You dumba**, what keeps them from blowing the plane at 1+15 out, especially when you plan on publicizing your brilliant plan immediately to show the public how safe you made them?"

Our entire security apparatus needs a healthy dose of de-arrogantization and the re-introduction of reality through frank transmission of information and criticism both up and down through the chain of command. That is not happening today.

[slapout9]

Pretty soon we will have to fly naked,with no luggage,sitting on the outside of the plane, under the eyes of an armed Predator escort.

[Firn]

Didn't practically all of the recent wanna-be-bombers fit into rather narrow threat profiles? Or am I wrong?


Firn

[82redleg]

Didn't practically all of the recent wanna-be-bombers fit into rather narrow threat profiles? Or am I wrong?


Firn

Yes, they did. And our PC fed.gov clownshow FUBAR'd it.

Why were we letting this clown into the US anyway? Did he have a skill? Bring some economic benefit? I see no reason to let ANYONE that fits certain threat profiles to travel here, period.

[selil]

Pretty soon we will have to fly naked,with no luggage,sitting on the outside of the plane, under the eyes of an armed Predator escort.

I think it is very interesting in our victorian puritan rooted country, that the soon to be implemented body scanners are not causing a huge issue. Imagine some guy in a dark room with a computer is going to be digitally removing peoples clothes. That would include men, women, grandma, grandpa, and little girls and boys. In any other venue the same technology would result in in prosecution from peep show to child pornography. I haven't heard one word.

Then again I quit flying a few years back. Haven't flown since 2003 in fact. In my laboratory I have a digital video camera ($30) that does the same basic thing as the millimeter wave technology ($500K). This isn't about security but abusing privacy and companies making money. It wouldn't have stopped any recent terrorist attack either.

[davidbfpo]

I have been off-line for a few days so catching up and with a lot of reading today on this attack.

At the start (Post 4) I expressed surprise that the bomber waited till the approach to Detroit.

Bourbon's points (Post 11) are well taken, I just think an un-explained airliner crash mid-ocean provokes more fear than downing the plane elsewhere and of course complicates the forensic aspect (remember the Lockerbie crash would have been over the ocean if the plane had left on schedule). Even a crash over the tundra of frozen Canada would pose problems as those flights do fly the northern route.

Slap,

(Responding to Post 10). A crash at Detroit airport IMHO was unlikely, although the media footage would have been immense and if unexplained a gain for creating fear.

The analysis by Peter Neumann, ICSR @ Kings College, London is a good start: http://icsr.info/blog/INSTANT-ANALYS...irlines-Flight and and I recommend these two articles: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews Which looks at the internet writings of Mutallad.

Secondly Steve Coll writes on a Nigerian article and the broader aspects: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...lmutallab.html

I would draw attention to the willingness of Mutallab's father to report his concerns to the US Embassy in Nigeria, the role of family information - distinct from that from the community or public - is often overlooked and appears to be downgraded by officialdom at times, maybe in this episode too.

The other issue is why AQ continue to pursue attacks on airliners, a supposedly "hardened" target; which Professor Bruce Hoffman has pointedly referred to in his lectures and writings.

Making sense of all the information available apparently before Mutallab boarded the flight is now obscured by the media furore and already I have read "a failure to join the dots up" a nice simple headline that does not help understanding.

[Kevin23]

I have been off-line for a few days so catching up and with a lot of reading today on this attack.

At the start (Post 4) I expressed surprise that the bomber waited till the approach to Detroit.

Bourbon's points (Post 11) are well taken, I just think an un-explained airliner crash mid-ocean provokes more fear than downing the plane elsewhere and of course complicates the forensic aspect (remember the Lockerbie crash would have been over the ocean if the plane had left on schedule). Even a crash over the tundra of frozen Canada would pose problems as those flights do fly the northern route.

Slap,

(Responding to Post 10). A crash at Detroit airport IMHO was unlikely, although the media footage would have been immense and if unexplained a gain for creating fear.

The analysis by Peter Neumann, ICSR @ Kings College, London is a good start: http://icsr.info/blog/INSTANT-ANALYS...irlines-Flight and and I recommend these two articles: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews Which looks at the internet writings of Mutallad.

Secondly Steve Coll writes on a Nigerian article and the broader aspects: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...lmutallab.html

I would draw attention to the willingness of Mutallab's father to report his concerns to the US Embassy in Nigeria, the role of family information - distinct from that from the community or public - is often overlooked and appears to be downgraded by officialdom at times, maybe in this episode too.

The other issue is why AQ continue to pursue attacks on airliners, a supposedly "hardened" target; which Professor Bruce Hoffman has pointedly referred to in his lectures and writings.

Making sense of all the information available apparently before Mutallab boarded the flight is now obscured by the media furore and already I have read "a failure to join the dots up" a nice simple headline that does not help understanding.

Again even though this question has been asked in detail before.

Why didn't this guy attempt to detonate the device, when the aircraft was over the Atlantic? Had he been successful, the plane very well likely would have gone down and if he is connected to AQ or any other terrorist group, they could have still claimed responsibility. As that was the case with the perpetrators behind Air India Flight 182, which blow up midair far off the coast of the Britain/Ireland.

[Schmedlap]

Anybody recall Air France flight 447 that disappeared over the Atlantic, en route to Rio de Janiero in June 2009? It was kind of a big story for a few days, largely due to the mystery involved. Mystery is not nearly as terrorizing to a populace as having an aircraft blown up within their airspace. We are all still guessing at what happened to Air France 447 and we'll probably never know unless the black box miraculously washes up on shore and some passer-by recognizes it as something important. I think that helps to shed some light on why terrorists don't prefer to detonate over the ocean.

[davidbfpo]

(From) Mystery is not nearly as terrorizing to a populace as having an aircraft blown up within their airspace...I think that helps to shed some light on why terrorists don't prefer to detonate over the ocean.

Schmedlap,

I'd overlooked my argument a long time ago on SWC that AQ appears to pick targets - in the West - where two media footage options are present: the public with cameras / mobile phones and public and private CCTV.

If the KLM flight had detonated over the USA only the first option would be present; could the plane have flown onto Detroit airport - I think not, but crashing / landing anywhere in greater Detroit would have attracted a horde of TV cameras.

I also wonder about, speculate, the option for their own publicity team. Why would this be required with so much footage being available? A developing thought.

[Schmedlap]

I think it is very interesting in our victorian puritan rooted country, that the soon to be implemented body scanners are not causing a huge issue. Imagine some guy in a dark room with a computer is going to be digitally removing peoples clothes. That would include men, women, grandma, grandpa, and little girls and boys.

Yecch. I have no desire to see the elderly or the adolescent disrobed. Whoever wants that job can have it. I don't even want to view most of the out-of-shape masses of chewed bubble gum in the 18 to 35 demographic. I made it through a few tours in combat without mental issues (some would beg to differ). I don't know how I would hold up staring at the average disrobed American traveler for 8 hours at a time, 5 days per week, for 20 years. There's a job that will burn people out quickly.

[wm]

Whether we are talking about CT, COIN, other threats, people always talk about how we need to reorganize, retrain, etc, to deal with the new age threat. Even if any of that would ultimately be helpful, we are never going to get anywhere until our bureaucracies and their promotion mechanisms start selecting out the guys who say, "I know how to fix this. We'll just make everyone stay seated with their hands on their laps for the last hour of the flight." More importantly, the systems need to select out all of the sycophants who sit through that meeting nodding, smiling, and stroking the boss rather than saying, "You dumba**, what keeps them from blowing the plane at 1+15 out, especially when you plan on publicizing your brilliant plan immediately to show the public how safe you made them?"

Our entire security apparatus needs a healthy dose of de-arrogantization and the re-introduction of reality through frank transmission of information and criticism both up and down through the chain of command. That is not happening today.

The following quotation from a Mel Brooks' character (Governor William J. Le Petomane) seems very apropos here:

Holy underwear! Sheriff murdered! Innocent women and children blown to bits! We have to protect our phoney baloney jobs here, gentlemen! We must do something about this immediately! Immediately! Immediately! Harrumph! Harrumph! Harrumph!

BTW, Le Petomane is an interesting choice of character name. Go here to read the complete story of this extract:

Joseph Pujol, better known as Le Petomane (which we may loosely translate as "the fartiste") . . . Le Petomane performed his unique act from 1887 to 1914, and became one of his country's best-known vaudevillians. At one point he was earning 20,000 francs a week, compared to 8,000 for his contemporary Sarah Bernhardt.

[Stan]

The following quotation from a Mel Brooks' character (Governor William J. Le Petomane) seems very apropos here:

Hey Wayne !

But this quote from Ken Wainstein is much more convincing

Ken Wainstein, who became the first Assistant Attorney General for Homeland Security in 2006, told CBS News White House correspondent Mark Knoller that Abdulmutallab represents the kind of operative who could be "a goldmine" for al Qaeda.

Wainstein points out that Abdulmutallab speaks English, is Westernized, has multiple entry visa to the U.S. and can "fly under the radar."

[wm]

But this quote from Ken Wainstein is much more convincing

Stan,
As my dad told me, "Hindsight is always 20-20."