H&K G3 market in East Africa

[Stan]

MA,
We purchase Czech-made 7.62mm ball surplus ammo. These rounds were originally intended for the 308 market and for the price, a good bargain.

150 grain bullets run about 350.00 USD for 1,000 rounds. Honestly, some of the most economical ammo comes from MIDUSA

We're also informed that the Polish ammo for their UKM-2000 is standard NATO 7.62.

Interesting... H&K tried making weapons for the 7.62x39 market as well as the USA SAW. Both failed. One would think the Chinese have already got the NATO 7.62 product in Africa

[MattM]

KiwiGrunt,

Is that a 6.5 Grendel cartridge in your photo?

-- Matt

[Kiwigrunt]

KiwiGrunt,

Is that a 6.5 Grendel cartridge in your photo?

-- Matt

Yes, don't she look purdy?

[M-A Lagrange]

Thanks Fuchs and Kiwigrunt for the technical details. I had the gut feeling this would be the case but you just gave me the right data.

Stan, when you say China would probably be already producing 7.62 NATO in Africa, do you have any idea of where?

What I see is that this could come from Khartoum, Eritrea, Somalia; all through Ethiopia or Northern Kenya. But that would mean the production plan would be located in one of those places.
Do you think it could be the case?

One of my colleague said that G3 where also used in Irak during Sadam times. Most of SAF guys were trained there. It would make sense that some of those ammunitions could come from Irak during the last years (at least during 2003 to 2006). Do you think this could be the case?

[sgmgrumpy]

M-A Lagrange Have you seen this report dated 2009?

In its October 2009 report, the UN Panel of Experts noted that ‘an increasing proportion of 12.7 mm, 7.62 x 39 mm and 7.62 x 54 mm ammunition, as well as 4 x 4 vehicles, in use by all parties to the conflict in Darfur was produced postembargo’, indicating increasing embargo violations.34 According to the Panel of Experts, the violators include both Darfurian and Darfur-based Chadian groups, including the JEM, the Sudan Liberation Army (SLA)- Abdul Wahid, and the Union of Forces of the Resistance.35

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files...s-in-Sudan.pdf

[M-A Lagrange]

sgmgrumpy,

Thanks for the link. Actually I did have that one. I recommand it for anyone who is interrested into weapon trafficking in Darfur.

I'll be very specific: I am looking at specific ethnic groups access to small weapons and more especially to the G3 ammunitions.
The ethnic groups I am looking at are living long the Ethiopian border in Jongley and Eastern Equatoria.
The main problem I have with small arms survey is that they look mainly at organised groups weapons purchases. I am looking at individual or micro local communities access to small weapons.
Also, most of the UN efforts are turned on Darfur. I believe there can be some links between South Sudan and Darfur for weapon smuggling but it's too far from where I am.

[Stan]

The Sergeant Major beat me to it

Years ago there were reports of 7.62 NATO coming into DRC. Nothing directly pointed to the Chinese but there was sufficient rumor to make one wonder.

I doubt the ammo is coming from The Czech or Polish republics, but one quick look at the head stamps and/or primers will do the trick.

Keep in mind there's some real old ammunition in Africa and may have nothing to do with recent illegal trafficking. I "obtained" a rather rare box of steel-cased .45 acp in 1992 with head stamps from 1943! Not a single misfire

Regards, Stan

sgmgrumpy,

Thanks for the link. Actually I did have that one. I recommand it for anyone who is interrested into weapon trafficking in Darfur.

I'll be very specific: I am looking at specific ethnic groups access to small weapons and more especially to the G3 ammunitions.
The ethnic groups I am looking at are living long the Ethiopian border in Jongley and Eastern Equatoria.
The main problem I have with small arms survey is that they look mainly at organised groups weapons purchases. I am looking at individual or micro local communities access to small weapons.
Also, most of the UN efforts are turned on Darfur. I believe there can be some links between South Sudan and Darfur for weapon smuggling but it's too far from where I am.

Stan, when you say China would probably be already producing 7.62 NATO in Africa, do you have any idea of where?

What I see is that this could come from Khartoum, Eritrea, Somalia; all through Ethiopia or Northern Kenya. But that would mean the production plan would be located in one of those places.
Do you think it could be the case?

Production Plants: Kenya maybe, but the other countries ? I read the ammo was being shipped in direct from the manufacturer. Somalia sounds like the easiest point of entry and great for sales.

[JarodParker]

Ethiopia
Hibret Machine Tools Engineering Complex - Wiki
MoD Begins Manufacturing Military Hardware (unsure about reliability of site)Link

Kenya Ordnance Factories CorporationWebsite

[Stan]

Ethiopia
Hibret Machine Tools Engineering Complex - Wiki

That one supposedly closed in 2003, but definitely worth wondering if any surplus ammo made its way elsewhere.

Kenya Ordnance Factories CorporationWebsite

ALL OUR AMMUNITIONS ARE MADE TO NATO MILITARY STANDARDS.