Zero-Defects Mentality

[slapout9]

1964 US Army Missile Command
Title: Zero Defects


http://www.monmouth.army.mil/histori...e=Audio_Visual

Cain't watch on computer.....have to order it

[Pete]

The following is from a chronology of major events for the year 1964 on the Redstone Arsenal website. Gosh, mention of 1964 is enough to make a guy nostalgic for the Tonkin Gulf Resolution :

23 June 64 MICOM spearheaded DOD's massive drive, known as Zero Defects, to re-emphasize pride in workmanship and to bolster quality achievements throughout American industry. The command hosted a special seminar on its Zero Defects program to provide a pattern for implementing a DOD-wide prevention program which could be used by all military and industrial organizations. This conference was the first such event ever held by a DOD agency.

25 June 64 The REDSTONE missile, replaced by the PERSHING I, was classified obsolete.

25 June 64 The last CORPORAL artillery unit was inactivated.

[Ken White]

dod's massive drive, known as zero defects, to re-emphasize pride in workmanship and to bolster quality achievements throughout american industry

McNamara'a whiz Kids promulgated it but it was aimed at DoD industrial efforts, it did not permeate the Army as the mid 70s re-issue did... :d :d

[slapout9]

McNamara'a whiz Kids promulgated it but it was aimed at DoD industrial efforts, it did not permeate the Army as the mid 70s re-issue did... :d :d

Nah that ain't it...... in 64 you hadn't been out of the Marines long enough to understand advanced Army thinking yet.

Go to the link below and scroll down until you come to Zero Defects and you will find that on 25 April 1966 it Exploded onto Ft. Jackson and had an annual celebration 21 April 1967.


http://www.jackson.army.mil/Museum/H...PTER%20IV.html


A lot of folks have a problem with the fact that the Army won the Cold War and The Race To The Moon all by themselves!!!!been going downhill since then by listening to the wrong folks.

[Ken White]

Nah that ain't it...... in 64 you hadn't been out of the Marines long enough to understand advanced Army thinking yet.

I'd been out of the Corps for over ten years by 64 and had been in the Army long enough to be a PSG E minus seven type. However, a little later, at the critical time in 1966, I was playing around in the SE Asia War Games and I sure missed whatever was important and going on at Ft. Jackson. Fortunately, I have never been stationed at Ft Jackson so I probably missed a lot of cutting edge stuff.

A lot of folks have a problem with the fact that the Army won the Cold War and The Race To The Moon all by themselves!!!!been going downhill since then by listening to the wrong folks.

Yup, particularly those that are convinced that a poor exit will give you twists in a T-10.

Units, Slap, units. ATCs weren't units in the true sense of the word. Foat Bragg didn't pay much attention to Third Army.

Does Frank Borman know the Army did all that? Hmmm. Well, he may, he was a West Pointer...

[slapout9]

I'd been out of the Corps for over ten years by 64 and had been in the Army long enough to be a PSG E minus seven type.

Thats exactly what I mean..........See how you began to excel with that good old Army training

[Ken White]

Thats exactly what I mean..........See how you began to excel with that good old Army training

I had as much responsibility and was more trusted as a Marine Corporal than I had/was as a PSG in the Army. Of course, I was far more trusted as a PSG than I was as a 1SG or a SGM -- or even as a mid to upper grade DAC. I know most of that less trust was due to passage of time and erosion of values plus general suspicion of DACs. Thus, I guess your comment; "A lot of folks have a problem with the fact that the Army won the Cold War and The Race To The Moon all by themselves!!!!been going downhill since then by listening to the wrong folks." is correct. Question is who were and are they listening to...

[Hacksaw]

As someone who grew up in the Army described (and as an editorial note: thank you very LITTLE to CAVGUY for making me feel old by disclosing when he joined the officer ranks)... while I think/believe (and even have anecdotal evidence that I wasn't that guy), I can't help but recognize that in small ways I fell as victim as anyone to the "be careful what you measure" syndrome...

All my vehicles were on-line, chalked, drip panned, topped off and "ready to go to war" each Friday afternoon.... hmmm.... it seems I assumed we'd always go to war on the weekend (probably half right given Murphy's Laws)...

I too kept very close tabs on medical/dental readiness because that was everyone's obsession... but I actually think that one makes sense based on pre-deployment goat screws I participated in sooooo many times...

But I also paid close attention when the leadership classes were taught that said underwrite honest mistakes... take responsibility for the failings of those in your command... pass the credit, but not the #### downhill... give guidance, but let subordinates surprise you with their ingenuity (nearly always rewarded)....

All that said, I probably also roger out on too many things I should have said what about our contemporaries in the next battery... It was all fun for a commander, not necessarily for everyone else...

I don't know... I'm not convinced it was all bad then and all good now... I just know this two very enduring principle holds true.... People do well what you check... and... be careful what you measure it might produce the opposite effect...

e.g. If I tell a Motor SGT... your team doesn't go home until that truck is off the deadline report, and the part to fix the truck is not in... I have no one else to blame when they get caught acquiring the part from some other unit's vehicle...

Need a beer after that soul bearing missive...

[Pete]

People do well what you check...

"The troops do well what the boss checks" is said to have been one of Bruce Clark's sayings. I heard that he was a holy terror in the late '50s and early '60s.

[slapout9]

"The troops do well what the boss checks" is said to have been one of Bruce Clark's sayings. I heard that he was a holy terror in the late '50s and early '60s.

That is what Zero Defects was meant to do........be oriented on equipment.....wasn't designed to work as a tactical combat method against a reacting opponent Thats what you got Straegy and stuff for.

[Schmedlap]

e.g. If I tell a Motor SGT... your team doesn't go home until that truck is off the deadline report, and the part to fix the truck is not in... I have no one else to blame when they get caught acquiring the part from some other unit's vehicle...

Wow. Your mechanics were ambitious. Mine would have just tried to convince me that the fault was misdiagnosed and that the part is no longer necessary.

[Pete]

Slapout, Bruce Clark was Old School Army and not a zero-defects guy. He commanded CCB of the 7th Armored Division during its legendary stand at St. Vith in the Battle of the Bulge and was commander of USAEUR in 1960-1962. A battalion commander of mine said his temper was legendary. A biographical sketch of him is in the link below.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/bcclarke.htm

[Hacksaw]

Wow. Your mechanics were ambitious. Mine would have just tried to convince me that the fault was misdiagnosed and that the part is no longer necessary.

I was about to type something tongue in cheek and realized it would be a disservice to SFC Oh and many others... yes they were very ambitious, very good, and a large part of my unit's great success... weren't much to look at in Class A's but I bought many a pitcher of beer for guys who got vehicles operational (broken down in convoy) when others couldn't...

So yes they were ambitious, and loyal to a fault when they were called into the Bn Cdr's the following day and I went in first and took all the heat and they walked... funny thing was a week later the Bn Cdr bought me a beer and told me he'd have been disappointed if it had gone down any other way...

So they weren't all zero defect, just the overwhelming perponderence

Live well and row!!!

[wm]

If I tell a Motor SGT... your team doesn't go home until that truck is off the deadline report, and the part to fix the truck is not in... I have no one else to blame when they get caught acquiring the part from some other unit's vehicle...

Need a beer after that soul bearing missive...

Hey Hack,
The only time I said something like that, I was lucky enough to have my motor sergeant respond with something like, "Sir, I what I heard you say was 'We can't do any more productive work tonight 'cause we don't have the right parts. Knock off and I'll buy you a beer. Just make sure you are at the class IX warehouse first thing tomorrow to get the parts you need.'" And I was also lucky enough to understand his response.

But then I ran an admin use motor pool, not a tactical one. I only had to make sure of a couple of simple things:

• the shuttle bus got around to all the kasernes on schedule every day so troops could go on sick call, solve pay problems at finance, and get their mail at the consolidated mailroom;

• the MPs had enough patrol cars to maintain "law and order" (chasing down sheep in the pastures around the kasernes and finding good spots to sleep late at night);

• the unit supply sergeants had trucks so they could do their runs to the QM laundry for the troops to have clean linen and clothes; and

• the "choke and puke" (AKA dining facility) could get to ration breakdrown/TISA to pick up enough food to prepare the 10,000+ meals a day we served (Did I mention I was also the food service officer and my branch was not QM, OD, or TC?).

Unlike the guys in the armor battalion and 2 FA battalions whose motor pools were next door, we weren't too concerned about stopping the Group of Soviet Forces, Germany (GSFG)'s 3rd Shock Army or 1st Guards Tank Army when they decided to come rolling down the Fulda Gap (like that was ever really going to happen). We were a TDA outfit and didn't have to worry about those damn USR reports saying we couldn't do our wartime mission without a bunch of circle Xs.

Time for me to join you with that beer.

[selil]

Nah that ain't it...... in 64 you hadn't been out of the Marines long enough to understand advanced Army thinking yet.

Are you saying senility is a requirement for understanding the Army's advanced thinking skills?