Haiti (Catch all)

[marct]

I wonder if that works on an individual basis. I am particularly devilish and one might even say "possessed" at times. If only I had some money to combat the problem. Please text 666 to Fixme....

It worked for Jimmy Swaggart

[graphei]

Methinks it has something to do with the fact that

1. Haiti is overwhelmingly Catholic and some Evangelical groups still consider Catholics to be 'devil-worshippers'.

2. There is a whole lotta Voodoo going on down there and people wrongly associate it with Satanic rites.

'Pact with the Devil' conveniently brings both up.

In terms of drumming up money from like-minded Christians, it didn't ring that way to my ears. It could be interpreted as a veiled threat. Why would a devout Christian send money to people who work for the Devil- disaster or otherwise? Pray for their souls- yep. Money and goods? I'll have to do some digging.

[Backwards Observer]

So Satan is being used to cast out Satan? Lot of that goin' round these days seems like.

[Beelzebubalicious]

There are a slew of orgs raising money to save lives, but who is trying to save their souls?

[marct]

In terms of drumming up money from like-minded Christians, it didn't ring that way to my ears. It could be interpreted as a veiled threat. Why would a devout Christian send money to people who work for the Devil- disaster or otherwise? Pray for their souls- yep. Money and goods? I'll have to do some digging.

Could be. I'd love to see what actual percentage of any money raised actually gets to people who need it. Give the good doctors involvement, my money would lie on the "less than the bad old days at UNICEF" level (i.e. <12%). Then again, I really, REALLY, dislike the televangelist crowd !

[Schmedlap]

Then again, I really, REALLY, dislike the televangelist crowd !

You and most Christians, too.

[Danny]

For this discussion board, but I'll play along too since someone else started this.

As for dear Pat, he isn't senile and his views make perfect sense within the context of his overall theology and worldview. His theology embraces one of continuing revelation instead of a closed revelation, so in other words, through feelings, dreams, visions, unction or whatever, he can have a direct pipeline into the mind of God. Most Assembly of God, Pentecostal, Wesleyan and other so-called "holiness" churches are the same in their belief system.

I am a Christian and happen to vehemently disagree on not only theological but logical grounds (i.e., tests of consistency). It's a long story, could go into it much later via e-mail if anyone wishes. Long and short of it, the problem with Pat's view isn't that it is wrong, which it is. The problem is that it falls within the context of his world view, and that is the larger problem.

The rain falls on the just and the unjust. 'Nuff said on that.

As for the nature of religious belief, good grief! Really? For a discussion board? Really? Start with the study of epistemology, go to ontology and cosmology, and end with theology and soteriology and ethics.

I've had seminary training, but unless there are some Chaplains who frequent this board, I doubt many here have. This is a bridge too far for a discussion thread.

Just chuckle at Pat and wish the Marines well in Haiti. Pat no more knows that God caused this as a result of their wickedness than Danny Glover knows that it occurred as a result of global warming (and no, I'm an unbeliever in that).

Regards,

HPS

[slapout9]

Anderson Cooper of CNN just interviewed General Honere' (spellin) of Katrina fame and he was not to pleased with situation. Among his responses were... drop the rest of the 82nd tomorrow morning and get this problem fixed! Have the local population start clearing landing pads for helicopters so they can set up water and food distribution points. Don't be afraid of the people they just want help. Another reporter said people are dying because of stupidity wasn't exactly sure what he meant but it appears that the roads are passable and have a fair amount of traffic on them but nothing is being distributed or at least very little. Zenpundit has aksed the question will Haiti be President Obama's Katrina?We will see.

[Steve the Planner]

Right. All the mumbo jumbo aside, this is a basic humanitarian crisis/disaster recovery operation, and the President will be measured by it, although, being a country far, far away, (read: Not America) he may get some latitude.

First underway, and foremost has been Honore, then DoD. Only DoD can plan, muster, resource and deliver the immediate response. (That is the underlying weak spot in all this "whole-of-government" thing). No other agencies have the resources and firepower.

Behind the scenes, a report in the Post indicated that the new US AID Director has been the substantive civilian in charge, and, based on prior experience, is apparently pretty good at it. (A reprieve for USAID's future). But they lack actual experts and staffing---just longer-range contract responses at the moment.

State first came out with an order for US citizens to get to the airport for flights home, then rescinded that for "shelter in place." Other than stumbling around, they don't seem to have their act together, or any relevant juice or resources.

I would have been happy to jump on a plane the first day, but like Honore indicated, the infrastructure and supporting framework isn't in place yet. Just another mouth to feed, and one without a backhoe or jack hammer (what's needed now). I can operate one, but I can't carry one across the pond.

The thought of seeing an injured loved one inches away, but separated by chunks of concrete, and what do you have to break through? Maybe a hammer< but probably just another hunk of concrete (futile).

As for the religion thing. What would Jesus do? Get a backhoe or jack hammer and go and try to rescue people!!!!

Behind the scenes, we already see the drones being diverted from Afghanistan to help. Great for Haiti, but, obviously, we now have another diversion of attention, leadership, resources (not a good thing).