Leadership can be toxic (catch all)

[Rifleman]

Moderator's Note

Five threads merged today. There maybe others but I only searched using toxic.(ends)


The CO of 2/508 and his CSM have been relieved in Afghanistan. And the former CO is asking for a lawyer.

Link: http://www.fayobserver.com/Articles/2010/01/22/970220

I feel for the soldiers in the unit most of all.

[Schmedlap]

I was trying to figure out what this is about, so I browsed the comments at the link. I'm now dumber for doing so.

Any idea what this is about?

Just the BC and CSM relieved? No CO or 1SG? Odd.

[William F. Owen]

Any idea what this is about?

Just going by the article, it's about "values." It would logically imply that the values of the former CO and CSM were not compatible with those of thier COC or those of the Unit.

I have a nastly feeling you may see this one pick up speed the further it rolls down hill....

[davidbfpo]

For the non-military members, without reading the press report, this quote gives some context from a different unit, with my emphasis:

Yesterday, we had about a third of the battalion return home on two different flights. Seeing four people on those two flights really impacted me. First, our Battalion's Command Sergeant Major returned. He and I had a great working relationship, and probably more important, we are friends. Many folks talk about how lonely command is for senior officers and Non-Commissioned Officers, but (at least from my perspective) I always had a friend that I could talk to about anything, share anything with, and ask for advice from. Working with our Command Sergeant Major has been the highlight of my professional career. He is a great man, a selfless and caring leader, and a great friend.

From:http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/timkarcher (Col. Tim Karcher's latest post injury letter).

Hope that helps.

[jkm_101_fso]

I seriously doubt it's anything tactical...that would be the last thing the CoC command would care about.

My guess: Drinking.

[pjmunson]

I seriously doubt it's anything tactical...that would be the last thing the CoC command would care about.

Tragic and true. How can we fix the CoC's disconnect with what matters?

[bismark17]

I was trying to figure out what this is about, so I browsed the comments at the link. I'm now dumber for doing so.

Isn't that the truth? Another 3 minutes of my life I can't have back....

[Ken White]

No way to tell from that article. Could be a deserved relief, could be totally flaky. Interesting that they hit both the CO and the CSM; I'm not at all sure that treating those two as a package as the Army seems to intend is really very smart. A good CSM gets paid to keep his Boss out of trouble; pack 'em together and the incentive to do that is diluted.

Maybe it's just me but that 'Army Values' foolishness is suspicious...

Take a while for the real story to come out.

[former-19Z5OC5]

Maybe it's just me but that 'Army Values' foolishness is suspicious...

One thing I found interesting was that apparently an early official statement said the decision had been made "at the highest levels of the Army" but after that comment drew questions about exactly who made the decision, the statement was revised.

I also note that the relief came shortly after LTC Jenio (and presumably his command group and staff) had given a briefing to some visiting congressmen.

Perhaps someone forgot to be politically correct??

[Fuchs]

Not good: CO and CSM relieved

"Not good" is -given the performance of high-ranking officers in recent warfare and procurement- that NATO forces didn't total more than 1,000 sacked colonels and generals since 2002.


I am serious.

[tequila]

This thread over at Tom Ricks' blog is filled with some sordid backbiting between representatives of what appears to be the wives of the officers involved. Who knows if this had anything to do with it, but it may be that personality conflicts from back home made their way into theater for some of this.

[Schmedlap]

I've seen speculation / RUMINT in a few locations now that suggest this had something to do with some presentation(s).

You live by the slide, you die by the slide.

[NF6]

Lots of speculation out there but we'll all know in the days ahead. I for onr simply hope that the CoC got this one right, and its not something that we'll be hearing about a year from now

[Entropy]

There are a lot of links and analysis on this over at Ink Spots. Interesting stuff.

[Rifleman]

LTG Frank Helmick has barred COL Drinkwine's wife from brigade functions:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/0...gg_bct_061110/

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2010...06135?sac=Home

Sounds like she was an estrogen bomb in a constant state of explosion.

So, I'm guessing this doesn't help COL Drinkwine's chances at getting a star?

[SJPONeill]

Based on the two media reports, regardless of which side one might take, it remains the Colonel's obligation to act upon ANY influences within the Brigade which are detrimentally affecting morale amongst soldiers and/or dependents...

[J Wolfsberger]

Based on the two media reports, regardless of which side one might take, it remains the Colonel's obligation to act upon ANY influences within the Brigade which are detrimentally affecting morale amongst soldiers and/or dependents...

And this from the articles: "Brian Drinkwine dismissed their complaints and told them that the relationship between his wife and their wives was a senior-to-subordinate relationship. Drinkwine repeated that his wife speaks for him." I'd add emphasis, but the whole thing is toxic.

Why hasn't he been relieved?

[Ken White]

Why hasn't he been relieved?

Possibly better and perhaps far more important question:

How did he get where he is?

[Entropy]

his wife and their wives was a senior-to-subordinate relationship

Yeah, that guy should be fired. This kind of attitude explains why so few participate in base "wives clubs" anymore.

[J Wolfsberger]

Possibly better and perhaps far more important question:

How did he get where he is?

Agreed.