Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 64

Thread: Leadership can be toxic (catch all)

  1. #21
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,457

    Default

    Here's the poster:



    There are hundreds of funny spoof motivational posters out there. This is not one of them.

  2. #22
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,444

    Default

    Context isn't everything, but it is very important, imo.

    I know of a case that could have appeared similarly offensive if the context were not understood. A Mech Inf CO, who was white, had a gunner who was black. Being the CO's gunner is a demanding job. He frequently joked about the demands of his job, stating more than once that "the CO thinks I'm the damn Hotel November." By that, he meant "HN" which apparently is an acronym for "house nigger" meaning "house slave." After hearing this a few times, one of the guys in the CP who had some artistic skills drew a caricature of the gunner in 18th century slave attire and chains, and a caricature of the CO whipping him (along with the obligatory S&M overtones, since everything in the Army needs to have some sexual innuendo added to it). The gunner found this to be hilarious. The CO was mortified - likely envisioning his career going up in smoke like LTC Jenio's apparently has. I wonder what would have happened if that had been photographed and emailed to BN and put into the Cmd & Staff slides. Without understanding the context, I suspect there would have been an overreaction.

  3. #23
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8,060

    Default While I agree that the poster is pathetic

    obviously, the poster maker printed it and knowing what passes for humor in airborne infantry units, I suspect the allegedly black soldier who inserted it in the slide packet though it was off the wall funny -- or, conversely, he could've wanted to get someone in trouble by doing exactly what 'they' told him to do (that, too is an old airborne attribute... ).

    If what apparently occurred is the case -- and we still do not really know for sure -- the message is "Screw up tactically and you may get a bad OER; screw up politically and you WILL be relieved." That's not a message that should be sent.

    If used, the slide was wrong and the result will be more wrongs due to the Chain of Command's massive overreaction:

    1. The desire to micromanage will be enhanced and slide sets will be checked by five people including at least one Field grade. Co/By/Trp will submit slides to S3 two days prior...

    2. Commanders at Bn level, already significantly over managed and showing it, will become even more gun shy...

    3. Already unnecessary and overlong briefings will become even more boring.

    4. All Staffs will be authorized one additional SFC for slide checking and certification. Accordingly, the senior Scout Squad Leader will serve as Scout Platoon Sergeant and the SFC space formerly allocated will be used to resource the new position on the Staff for Infantry Bns as the pressing need obviously is in that branch. Bns from all other branches will have a space identified for transfer in due course...

    5. The rumor that a panel similar to the West - Clark panel which 'investigated' the Nidal Hasan incident at Ft Hood will investigate the use of any 'humor' slides in professional briefings is false (we hope...).

    6. Anti-Virus Software maker SlammNTech will announce availability of 'PP Chekist,' their new product that uses data mining to search slide sets for offensive words and phrases. The new software will sell initially in AAFES Exchanges worldwide.

    The first three are real.

    P.S

    Tequila is right -- those Commenters are sordid. Embarrassing, too...

  4. #24
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    obviously, the poster maker printed it and knowing what passes for humor in airborne infantry units, I suspect the allegedly black soldier who inserted it in the slide packet though it was off the wall funny -- or, conversely, he could've wanted to get someone in trouble by doing exactly what 'they' told him to do (that, too is an old airborne attribute... ).

    If what apparently occurred is the case -- and we still do not really know for sure -- the message is "Screw up tactically and you may get a bad OER; screw up politically and you WILL be relieved." That's not a message that should be sent.
    It occurs to me (with absolutely no evidence at all), however, that the slides might simply have been the powerpoint straw that broke the camel's back--and that there could have been a range of other issues also at play in the decision to relieve them.
    They mostly come at night. Mostly.


  5. #25
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8,060

    Thumbs up There usually are...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Brynen View Post
    It occurs to me (with absolutely no evidence at all), however, that the slides might simply have been the powerpoint straw that broke the camel's back--and that there could have been a range of other issues also at play in the decision to relieve them.
    The military justice system is often slammed for giving excessive sentences for minor offenses. That is usually the result of a long term miscreant who has successfully evaded punishment for months or years finally being nailed for something, no matter how petty, in order to make him or her pay for those other crimes...

    Same principle here as you suggest. Could be little more than Boss X being annoyed or even harassed by Subordinate Y and finally being "rid of a meddlesome priest."

    Could be a few more serious issues -- but I'd bet not, else there'd likely be a Court Martial...

    Early days. We'll see.

  6. #26
    Council Member jkm_101_fso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Kabul
    Posts
    325

    Default

    I knew it was nothing tactical/combat command related. That would be the last thing anyone cared about.

    The sad part is that if this was a unit that performed well, they are sans leadership because of an un-PC foul-up. Will the new CO be PC? You can bet your ass he will. Will he be tactically proficient in this conflict?

    I sure hope so.
    Sir, what the hell are we doing?

  7. #27
    Council Member Brett Patron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken White View Post
    The military justice system is often slammed for giving excessive sentences for minor offenses. <...snip...> Could be a few more serious issues -- but I'd bet not, else there'd likely be a Court Martial...

    Early days. We'll see.

    Unless they actually prefer charges, there is very little LTC Jenio and the CSM can really do. They have to defend a negative, i.e. prove that something that didn't really happen didn't happen (or didn't happen as it was portrayed by a hasty investigation). The only real hope Jenio has is if they bring charges under Court Martial.

    I hope they get attorneys well schooled on administrative law. Criminal law experts are great, and are successful in a court-martial situation, but have limited success when their client is being attacked by an OER.

  8. #28
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Brynen View Post
    It occurs to me (with absolutely no evidence at all), however, that the slides might simply have been the powerpoint straw that broke the camel's back--and that there could have been a range of other issues also at play in the decision to relieve them.
    Likewise knowing nothing, I strongly concur. A popular CO, well liked and supported by his officers should be almost fire-proof, while the reverse is obviously true. It's a stupid slide, but it's not a sacking offence. IMO, it's a coffee-free stand up with the formation commander.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

  9. #29
    Council Member Infanteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    347

    Default

    Well, between the random scuttlebut on the web and the wives club fighting amongst themselves with pitchforks on Ricks' blog, this is undoubtably something that has been stewing for a while....

  10. #30
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    8,060

    Default Pitchforks are troublesome but the

    Axe murderers are really sad...

  11. #31
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    People's Republic of California
    Posts
    85

    Default Another sacking

    Unrelated to the 101st story is A-Stan...

    Gates Tries to Get F-35 Program Back on Course
    Story

    That study found that the development of the plane could be delayed by two and a half years and cost an extra $16.6 billion if no changes were made. Mr. Gates has also said that he replaced the head of the program, Maj. Gen. David R. Heinz of the Marine Corps, to show that officials would be held accountable “when things go wrong.”

  12. #32
    Council Member Infanteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    347

    Default

    Yes - seems to be a popular topic these days....

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020203534.html

    A military investigation into an ambush that left nine Americans dead recommends that the Army consider taking disciplinary action against three U.S. commanders who oversaw the 2008 mission to send troops to the remote Afghan outpost, defense officials said Tuesday.

  13. #33
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    827

    Default

    Wilf:

    My Brit Pol/Mil colleague from Baghdad told me that the proper term was: Meeting without Coffee.

    Has that changed?

    Steve

  14. #34
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve the Planner View Post
    Wilf:

    My Brit Pol/Mil colleague from Baghdad told me that the proper term was: Meeting without Coffee.

    Has that changed?
    He's right mate. "Without coffee" is correct. I obviously need to re-zero my jargon!
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

  15. #35
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,444

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
    He's right mate. "Without coffee" is correct. I obviously need to re-zero my jargon!
    Is that what we Americans call an "ass chewing"?

  16. #36
    Council Member Infanteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    347

    Default

    In Canada it is called "getting jacked up" or getting a "jacking".

  17. #37
    Council Member Kiwigrunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Auckland New Zealand
    Posts
    467

    Default

    We call it performing the hat-less dance. Had to do it once. Lost my cadence. Nearly stepped on the CSM's toes. What a silly performance that was.
    Nothing that results in human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. (Christopher Columbus)

    All great truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
    (Arthur Schopenhauer)

    ONWARD

  18. #38
    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The State of Partachia, at the eastern end of the Mediterranean
    Posts
    3,947

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmedlap View Post
    Is that what we Americans call an "ass chewing"?
    Indeed, except with the major proviso that we try not to put our mouths or teeth anywhere close to another man's bottom!
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

  19. #39
    Council Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    41

    Default Here's a possible update

    http://fayobserver.com/articles/2010...03278?sac=Home


    Col. Drinkwine wrote in his sworn statement that he never let personal issues creep into his professional evaluations of soldiers.

    But two battalion commanders - Lt. Col Frank Jenio and Lt. Col. David Oclander - told Spillman they believe disputes with Dr. Drinkwine were an unstated cause for professional retaliation.

    Jenio, who was in charge of 800 troops operating just outside Kandahar, was relieved of command in Afghanistan along with his top enlisted adviser, Cmd. Sgt. Maj. Bert Puckett, on Jan. 13. They were sent home to Fort Bragg for "using poor judgment" that "fostered a command climate that was not consistent with our Army values," an 82nd Airborne Division spokesman said at the time.

    The Observer later discovered that racially and sexually offensive PowerPoint slides shown during briefings led to their removal.

    Jenio, who declined an interview request, paints a different picture in his sworn statement.

    Dr. Drinkwine and Jenio's wife, Sherri, were often at odds, according to multiple statements

    Frank Jenio said in his statement that during one heated phone conversation last year, Dr. Drinkwine threatened to have him fired.

    Jenio said Col. Drinkwine failed to address the problems his wife was causing and stayed isolated from his subordinates. Dr. Drinkwine would often use the threat of "telling Brian" when she had a disagreement with a family member or soldier, he said, and Col. Drinkwine made matters worse by giving the impression that she had influence over him.

    Jenio said in his statement that the need to deal with the FRG challenges nearly every other day took away valuable time he could have been using to focus on the war.

  20. #40
    Council Member Infanteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    347

    Default

    I wonder what every soldier and their spouse between the ranks of Private and Major in that Brigade must be thinking as this unfolds.....

Similar Threads

  1. Leadership of Cyber Warriors: Enduring Principles and New Directions
    By SWJ Blog in forum Media, Information & Cyber Warriors
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-11-2011, 02:41 PM
  2. Who are the great generals?
    By JD in forum Historians
    Replies: 402
    Last Post: 02-12-2011, 02:18 AM
  3. Leadership in History Pertaining to the Present
    By Menning in forum Historians
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 07-30-2008, 04:43 PM
  4. Secretary Gates at the U.S. Global Leadership Campaign
    By SWJED in forum Military - Other
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-16-2008, 08:11 PM
  5. 25 Strategies for Coalition Leadership
    By Arctic Breaze in forum US Policy, Interest, and Endgame
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-11-2007, 05:18 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •