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    Council Member Xenophon's Avatar
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    Default Indirect Fire Support in Small Wars

    I figured I'd start a thread for all things artillery and mortar with regards to small wars. Post articles and such as you find them.

    There are two great articles in the Gazette this month (Feb '10). Enhanced Artillery Battery Operations by LtCol Jonathan P. Dunne and Is the King Dead? by LtCol James C. Lewis. I can't link directly to them but the Gazette's website is here: http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/ Definitely recommend them.

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    Useful blend of narrative and SOPs by SFC Jason Levy is at

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Battal...an.-a021420220

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    "www.thefreelibrary.com/Battalion+mortar+platoon+operations+in+afghanistan .-a021420220"

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    Council Member Bob's World's Avatar
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    Default Former Redleg

    I hold a deep afinity, appreciation, and respect for the Field Artillery. I have been on both the receiving end as well as the delivery end, I have been a fire supporter at Platoon through Brigade level, I have commanded a firing battery, and I am a member of the Order of St. Barbara.

    These are hard times for the field artillery.

    I do believe quite strongly that it would be criminally short-sighted to drive a stake through the heart of "The King of Battle" (a title earned, not bestowed by some poet) based upon an assessment drawn solely from the GWOT-driven, COIN-based operations of recent years.

    In COIN one is in a competition with the insurgent to earn the support of the populace. (and in FID one is working to assist the HN COIN force to regain the support of the populace). This does not create a huge role for artillery, that is really good at delivering massive death and destruction, but not so much at handling a populace with kid gloves as one deals rather surgically with the insurgent himself. A Pred armed with a hellfire is great for that. Allows that BN CDR from the comfort of his CP to PID the insurgent personnally that is pinning down his guys, and give the order and then watch the insurgent vaporize in a flash of fire.

    In conventional warfare between states, however, one is out to crush the will of the other fellow's populace to continue to support his war-like ways. For this, and for disrupting and defeating large military formations, there is no substitute for field artillery.

    Know the nature of the war you are in today to be sure; but also be wise enough to recognize that that does not somehow translate into the war you might be asked to wage tomorrow. America must reconstitute and re-train its artillery and armor forces to both deter, and defeat if necessary, the major threats to our nation. A right-sizing of our current ongoing FID operations will help make that feasible.
    Robert C. Jones
    Intellectus Supra Scientia
    (Understanding is more important than Knowledge)

    "The modern COIN mindset is when one arrogantly goes to some foreign land and attempts to make those who live there a lesser version of one's self. The FID mindset is when one humbly goes to some foreign land and seeks first to understand, and then to help in some small way for those who live there to be the best version of their own self." Colonel Robert C. Jones, US Army Special Forces (Retired)

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    Council Member William F. Owen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post
    I do believe quite strongly that it would be criminally short-sighted to drive a stake through the heart of "The King of Battle" (a title earned, not bestowed by some poet) based upon an assessment drawn solely from the GWOT-driven, COIN-based operations of recent years.
    Amen, brother Bob. Some conclusions from my MsC work, about modern system regular warfare, is that the one thing you cannot skimp on, is good and effective artillery. Far more decisive than good tanks for example.

    These are hard times for the field artillery.
    ...and that is the fault of the artillery! What idiocy prevented them from being as relevant to fighting irregulars as regulars? In most armies the secondary role for the artillery is Infantry. Additionally there is a massive range of toys from GMLRS to UAVs that Artillery could bring to the pile.
    Infinity Journal "I don't care if this works in practice. I want to see it work in theory!"

    - The job of the British Army out here is to kill or capture Communist Terrorists in Malaya.
    - If we can double the ratio of kills per contact, we will soon put an end to the shooting in Malaya.
    Sir Gerald Templer, foreword to the "Conduct of Anti-Terrorist Operations in Malaya," 1958 Edition

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    Council Member Kiwigrunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William F. Owen View Post
    In most armies the secondary role for the artillery is Infantry.
    As it is in NZ.
    I was in the 3rd Infantillery battalion in Timor which was based around artillery because we had run out of infantry battalions. It worked, but only just. The problem I think is mindset. And I think it is a hard one to overcome. Young testosterone heavy soldiers can be quite stubborn when it comes to swallowing pride regarding 'their' trade. I don’t know how training can be designed better to overcome it. Many gunners were strongly opposed to this secondary role as a result of which they just didn’t want to be there.
    That said, just as many took it on and performed their secondary role admirably.
    Nothing that results in human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. (Christopher Columbus)

    All great truth passes through three stages: first it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
    (Arthur Schopenhauer)

    ONWARD

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    Council Member jcustis's Avatar
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    I enjoyed reading the Enhanced Artillery Battery Operations article, but LtCol Dunne lost me when he proposed that 0802s serve as the Fire Support Officers for a company, vice the XO or Wpns Plt cmdr tasking to serve as a Fire Support Team ldr.

    What he did not address is where we would get our battalion fire support coordinators (typically assigned to the weapons company commander as a collateral duty). Although there are indeed courses for FSC training, 0302 Lts cut their teeth on fire support as a FiST ldr, and without that experience, by the time he becomes a weapons company commander, he would only be "book learned". Considerably greater investments would have to be made in his training, and that simply does not happen.

    Now, were he willing to pony up 0802 majors to every infantry battalion, I'd agree with his approach wholeheartedly.

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    Council Member jkm_101_fso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post
    I hold a deep afinity, appreciation, and respect for the Field Artillery. I have been on both the receiving end as well as the delivery end, I have been a fire supporter at Platoon through Brigade level, I have commanded a firing battery, and I am a member of the Order of St. Barbara.

    These are hard times for the field artillery.

    I do believe quite strongly that it would be criminally short-sighted to drive a stake through the heart of "The King of Battle" (a title earned, not bestowed by some poet) based upon an assessment drawn solely from the GWOT-driven, COIN-based operations of recent years.

    In COIN one is in a competition with the insurgent to earn the support of the populace. (and in FID one is working to assist the HN COIN force to regain the support of the populace). This does not create a huge role for artillery, that is really good at delivering massive death and destruction, but not so much at handling a populace with kid gloves as one deals rather surgically with the insurgent himself. A Pred armed with a hellfire is great for that. Allows that BN CDR from the comfort of his CP to PID the insurgent personnally that is pinning down his guys, and give the order and then watch the insurgent vaporize in a flash of fire.

    In conventional warfare between states, however, one is out to crush the will of the other fellow's populace to continue to support his war-like ways. For this, and for disrupting and defeating large military formations, there is no substitute for field artillery.

    Know the nature of the war you are in today to be sure; but also be wise enough to recognize that that does not somehow translate into the war you might be asked to wage tomorrow. America must reconstitute and re-train its artillery and armor forces to both deter, and defeat if necessary, the major threats to our nation. A right-sizing of our current ongoing FID operations will help make that feasible.
    Great post, Sir.

    As a current battery commander, I appreciate you recognizing the complexities of not only our missions in combat, but training for those missions, as well.

    My battery just fielded our Guns; we go to certify the sections next month and platoons in April. After that, we will transition to train for our mission(s) downrange. The men are fired up to smell some wolf pussy this spring; but not disheartened that they must train to be infantrymen, as well.

    The current state of the Field Artillery, in my opinion, is pretty strong. Our artillerymen understand (and have understood for a while now) that the Army needs us to be multi-functional and flexible.

    I continue to tell my men one thing: We might not be the best infantry company in the brigade, but we are sure as #### going to be the best firing battery. Truth be told, I stole that line from an old battalion commander of mine, but I love it because it’s the truth.

    There is no doubt that the core competency of our Officers, NCOs and Soldiers has degraded over the past eight years. Frankly, we don’t get to shoot as often as we would like or as often as we need to. But there just isn’t time. Not if we are going to train for everything that we are asked to do.

    And every day, another wealth of knowledge in the form of a CSM, 1SG or SFC retires. That knowledge is lost forever. Our young NCOs and officers have a lot on their plate and have had for some time. I am confident in their ability, but I somewhat fear the day that we are asked to be the Field Artillerymen that we were on September 10, 2001. In my opinion, we aren’t there…but we can be.

    However, it should be recognized that our branch is now full of seasoned officers and NCOs that have been asked to do everything, and in most cases, done it quite well. What we lack in technical ability, we make up for in tenacity, confident decision making and maturity.
    Sir, what the hell are we doing?

  9. #9
    Council Member sullygoarmy's Avatar
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    Default Artillery in COIN

    I've seen some interesting dynamics here in Baghdad with regards to using IDF or trying to at least. The unit replaced pushed hard to fire ground burst illum missions to "discourage" insurgents from conducting ISF attacks on US bases. Even though all the ground owners argued against it, including their FSOs, the Brigade won and started conducting ground burst illum missions on the fringes of Baghdad, in areas where no historical points of origin occurred! The results: two burned down farms, and one animal killed due to a falling canister. Prior to these missions, there hadn't been any IDF attacks in a while. Immediately following, several US bases took incoming.

    Seems to me we tried bringing a knife (or a flare) to a gunfight and lost. We are still trying to conduct consequence management from those missions a few weeks ago. Yes, the artillery got to fire. No, it had no deterrent effect on the enemy and managed to piss everyone off.

    I am all for the devastating effects of artillery and nothing warms this Scout's heart like a GLMLRS strike. That being said, the application of indirect, be it mortars or artillery, needs to be tied to an effect the ground owner both needs and wants. Otherwise, we are just wasting both ordnance and wasta.
    "But the bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet withstanding, go out to meet it."

    -Thucydides

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