Enhanced MAGTF Operations- USMC's Small Unit Future

**jcustis** · 02-12-2010

I'm scratching my head a bit here. Attaching arty tubes to a company tells me that someone s thinking that company is going to clear those fires as well. Given the degree of accuracy required for mensurated target grids, in spacial relation to potential collateral damage concerns (for current operating environments), I am having a hard time seeing how a company is going to do that, with a distributed arrangement.

I'm curious and want to know more, but geesh, I remain flabbergasted some times at the realization that the Marine Corps still tends to focus on the equipment at the detriment of sharpening the skill first.

**Xenophon** · 02-13-2010

From what I understand, the 155 plt is being used for the experiment but in eventual execution the EFSS can be used as well. It won't be attached, it will be in direct support. As it is now, a battery is assigned as direct support to a battalion. During ECO, two guns (or tubes) will be DS'd out to each company. An 0802 will be in charge of each platoon as a platoon commander/FDO/XO all in one and will clear fires (allegedly anyway, grunts have this ridiculous idea in their head that they're better qualified to clear fires than an artilleryman). Depending on the environment, each platoon will require security if not co-located on a FOB. The logistics and security issues are being tossed around by MCCDC as we speak.

**jcustis** · 02-13-2010

Originally Posted by Xenophon

From what I understand, the 155 plt is being used for the experiment but in eventual execution the EFSS can be used as well. It won't be attached, it will be in direct support. As it is now, a battery is assigned as direct support to a battalion. During ECO, two guns (or tubes) will be DS'd out to each company. An 0802 will be in charge of each platoon as a platoon commander/FDO/XO all in one and will clear fires (allegedly anyway, grunts have this ridiculous idea in their head that they're better qualified to clear fires than an artilleryman). Depending on the environment, each platoon will require security if not co-located on a FOB. The logistics and security issues are being tossed around by MCCDC as we speak.

I trust that you intended to put an emoticon behind the clearance of fires comment. Or if deliberate, why would come to that conclusion?

RJ · 02-13-2010

COMMAR - Thank you for the heads up. The overall concept makes my heat sing. In the wide land wooly boondocks of Afgahanistan, Small infantry outposts, linked to modern support assets seems to fit.

I, like the cannon cocker in Quantico's take on the placement of a battery of a platoon of 155's with a Company base camp. I am a little concerned with the application of a artillery platoon attached to a company who's squads and even fireteams as dispursed over a large area. Is the Artillery for HQ protection or for support of the disbursed units?

Back in the day - Quemoy and Matsu! My platoon provided battery security for a Marine 8" Howitzer unit that was on loan to the Nationalist Chinese.
I'm in full accord with the training and assisting friendly nations, in odd places. Marines have done it forever. Lt. Presley O'Bannion probably started that whole trend.

I discovered recently that Marine Helo. Squardrons were in Vietnam two years before the first Marine BLT waded ashore in 1965. They were training South. Vietnam Forces in the vertical enveloment concept.

I know that there are some rocket assisted tube support that may range out to 40 miles, but I doubt a 155 unit could reach half that far. The 100 mile to 250 mile concept of DO needs a fair amount of air support for supply and protection. What are the downsides of putting eyes and ears that far out into indian country?

I like the fact the Corps is still pushing the envelope and with the new giszmoos and communications that allow a small unit set up in a high place could control a lot of land. I suspect Afgahanistan is a place where the terrain dictates movement through valleys and over passes. A little like Korea, but a lot broader in land mass. It is a very large nation, but a lot of it is vertical.

I can sense compression in the mountains will work for the folks who have the high ground looking down on the travel routes. Hardened OP can exist in the middle of the enemy, but they need extrodinary support 24/7 and a realistic rotation schedule.

I see the Right Guide is history. Ken hit the nail on the head. Replacement Platoon Sgt. was always the idea in the 50's thru the 70's for that position. gathering beans and bullets was always a tough job. Right Guides also operated as arbiter of personnel problems and father confessor for the troops.

Is the Marine Squad still 13 men? Squad Leader 3 fireteam leaders and and AR per fireteam?

A fireteam is too small a unit to handle OP and patrol work if detatched from the Squad. Hanging a 4 man team out on the end of the supply line, deep in enemy controlled country seems a reduction in force too far. Small special Operations units, fine. But a fireteam that is part of a multiple disbursement of Fireteams might be too complicated to support. A fireteam as a base for that 5 man Recon unit might work, but 4 guys and a radio a 100 miles of more in the Hindu Kush. I'm not comfortable with that picture.

Just an old platoon Sgt.s 2 cents.

**jcustis** · 11-12-2010

1) Distributed Tactical Communications System (DTCS): A PDA-based Netted Iridium push-to-talk system that allows Squads to communicate out to 100 miles presently & w/a software upgrade coming that will push that out to 250mi.

This device has great potential, but in its current configuration, blows as a communication tool.

**Infanteer** · 11-12-2010

Squads seperated by 100 miles? Now that's dispersion!

RJ · 11-13-2010

Infanteer,

In the old Texas West they only sent a single Texas Ranger to quell riots and insurrections.

With reat time communications and modern close air support wrinkles worked out in Iraq a Marine Rifle Squad could controll a lot of land from the highest
hill in the neighborhood.

I suspect the concept goes back to the old Celtic Hill Forts and fast manuvering, but a squad could hold the high ground if properly supplied and supported.

Instead of horse & signal fire communications and the ocasional trebuchet
emplacement we have mortars that can find and fix targets out to 40 miles and large group of Air Force, Navy and Marine pilots running in race track mode, a modern Marine Rifle Squad is as deadly as ever.

Belated 235 years of service Congratulations to my fellow Marines out there.

**COMMAR** · 11-17-2010

Originally Posted by Infanteer

Squads seperated by 100 miles? Now that's dispersion!

I don't think you would see a Plt of Squads Operating in correlation w/anywhere near that level of dispersion.

What you could see is Independent squad/s in a narrowly defined task like say surveillance of a/or mountain pass, key roads, etc. w/that level of push back to HHQ.

Also as drawn up in the SCMAGTF Concept an Inf Plt based Det. could be in 1 country w/multiple Squad based Courses of Instruction at various locations. There's also talk of Independent squads stationed on ships, CG Cutters, Destroyers etc.