Students protesting Petraeus at Georgetown University

[yamiyugikun]

Hi,

This is a bit old happened a month ago with students protesting Gen. Petraeus's visit at Georgetown University. The video has over 14,000 views on youtube. What do you guys think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rc5rAoAoTM

When you see this video this is why I'm embarrased to be a student. Not all students are radical liberals like their professors (most professors).

Naomi

[Rex Brynen]

When you see this video this is why I'm embarrased to be a student. Not all students are radical liberals like their professors (most professors).

Let's put this in perspective.

I'm not sure anyone should be particularly embarrassed by a mere ten protesters out of the 743 people (1.3%) that can be seated in Gaston Hall, or for that matter the over 15,000 students (0.07%) on the Georgetown campus.

Indeed, the reaction of the audience appeared to be very critical of the heckling.

[Schmedlap]

Good (and encouraging) point by Rex about the reactions from most of the audience. I would also add that the amazing restraint and order among the audience and security personnel was admirable. Among the ten disrupters, I can forgive them for being clueless punks who have no life experience and who never learned proper manners. But I really wonder what kind of reaction this drew from the faculty. Were they embarrassed? Proud? Pleased? Upset? Disappointed?

Will any of these students face disciplinary action for this? Or is this public disobedience and misbehavior just "free speech"? Whether this happens to GEN Petraeus or Michael Moore, it astounds me to see this activity continue without any apparent repercussion. Why isn't this grounds for expelling a student? Or is it and I just haven't heard?

[marct]

Hi Naomi,

When you see this video this is why I'm embarrased to be a student. Not all students are radical liberals like their professors (most professors).

Let me do a slightly different take from Rex on this. First, this was an extremely amateurish protest which, I believe, reflects the poor quality of the teaching / learning of political communications. Hades, Alinski must be rolling in his grave! I organized better ones when I was 13 .

Second, it was an extremely ineffective protest; look at how they were being boo'ed by most of the audience at times and how a lot of heads were nodding when they were escorted out.

Both of these points were highlighted in the clip of the protesters outside; poor (and stupid) chants & signs, no information immediately available, no attempt to draw in the crowd, etc. These people are an insult to the New Left of the 1960's, and I hope that any professors who were "advising" them get slapped down by their elders!

Let me also make one, direct, comment about the "radical liberals". I deal with them all the time and, in most cases, they are a product of how academic hiring selections have worked over the past 40-50 years. Some of them are extremely intelligent and their critiques are extremely valuable, while others, quite frankly, are cynical manipulators of the system they live in. In other words, they are like all humans; some good, most middlin', and some who aren't even fit to make screech with.

The point I'm trying to make is that you shouldn't let labels become your reality. You need to listen to what they are saying regardless of their labels, and make your own decisions - that's "critical thinking" .

Okay, final point: my grandmother always used to say that "politeness was the vasaline of social intercourse", and that is a lesson these particular protesters just didn't learn. Of course, I think it would be a fascinating experiment for them to try the same style of protest at, say, the Quetta Shura and see where they get with it (drat,. now were is that "totally evil grin smiley....?)

[patmc]

A few moons ago now, GEN (R) Bernard Trainor, USMC spoke at Holy Cross in Worcester, MA. He is an alum and led a seminar in addition to his speech. Because I was an Army ROTC cadet I was able to get one of the seats in the seminar and got to talk with him. I had read his book on the Gulf War (The Generals' War) and he was very sharp in person. At the actual speech, some students protested outside and complained that a retired officer shouldn't speak and that ROTC was evil, etc... Thankfully no one interrupted his talk, but during the Q+A some students, professors, or residents of Worcester tried to sharp shoot or trick him. I can't remember what he said, but I do remember that he didn't take their crap and shot back some really good lines. I understand that these students believe in what they're doing, but since they can actually do so little, I hope this makes them happy.

HC is a Jesuit school and has its range of activists, but I remember they were either really out there, or thought they were really clever until proven otherwise, but never openly hostile or offensive. I did laugh after they announced weekly protests until the end of the Iraq War, and I walked by one day and there was no protest because it was raining. That memory made me feel good a few years later whenever it rained in Iraq. If this is as organized as the protests can get, Americans either really don't care or actually support what we're doing. Not sure which.

[John T. Fishel]

As a great fan of Alinsky, I loved the comment. We didn't organize when I was 13 but we did organize a strike when I was 14 and a pretty good demonstration when I was 16. In college, many of us picketed an appearance of George Wallace before he spoke and then went inside and listened politely to what he had to say, and departed unconvinced.
No way I can top your grandmother's comment!!! Was she, perhaps, related to Neville Longbottom's Gran?

Cheers

JohnT

[marct]

Hi John,

As a great fan of Alinsky, I loved the comment. We didn't organize when I was 13 but we did organize a strike when I was 14 and a pretty good demonstration when I was 16. In college, many of us picketed an appearance of George Wallace before he spoke and then went inside and listened politely to what he had to say, and departed unconvinced.

I've got to say how shocked I am at the poor organizing capabilities of so many of today's students - I'm beginning to think there would be a great demand for an "applied poli sci" course in the area . I always suspected that we had a similar background ....

No way I can top your grandmother's comment!!! Was she, perhaps, related to Neville Longbottom's Gran?

Wouldn't surprise me. Her official bio is here, although it is missing a lot; I guess they just don't like putting in "sayings" .

[marct]

Hi patmc,

A few moons ago now, GEN (R) Bernard Trainor, USMC spoke at Holy Cross in Worcester, MA. He is an alum and led a seminar in addition to his speech. Because I was an Army ROTC cadet I was able to get one of the seats in the seminar and got to talk with him. I had read his book on the Gulf War (The Generals' War) and he was very sharp in person. At the actual speech, some students protested outside and complained that a retired officer shouldn't speak and that ROTC was evil, etc... Thankfully no one interrupted his talk, but during the Q+A some students, professors, or residents of Worcester tried to sharp shoot or trick him. I can't remember what he said, but I do remember that he didn't take their crap and shot back some really good lines. I understand that these students believe in what they're doing, but since they can actually do so little, I hope this makes them happy.

Well, protesting outside is fine - at least they had the courtesy to not interrupt his talk! It also sounds like he entered into the "spirit" of the debate as well - good !

HC is a Jesuit school and has its range of activists, but I remember they were either really out there, or thought they were really clever until proven otherwise, but never openly hostile or offensive. I did laugh after they announced weekly protests until the end of the Iraq War, and I walked by one day and there was no protest because it was raining. That memory made me feel good a few years later whenever it rained in Iraq.

Well, for many of these groups, the protests do follow an ordered pattern

• tri-weekly
• try weekly, and
• try weakly

If this is as organized as the protests can get, Americans either really don't care or actually support what we're doing. Not sure which.

There are other alternatives including fear of reprisal and just sheer incompetence on the organizers' parts . I've had the former happen at one of the symposia I was at a year back where advertising of the event was strictly limited because of fear of massive protests; we ended up with 1 speaker, 2 bodyguards with concealed automatic weapons, and ~20 people in the audience. My gut guess in this particular instance is sheer incompetence .

[yamiyugikun]

Hi Marc,

Thank you for the background on how hiring in academia has worked over the past 40 years. I didn't realize how poorly put together the student protestors were in that the crowd were. I guess it doesn't compare to the new Left of the 1960s

Naomi

[marct]

Hi Naomi,

Thank you for the background on how hiring in academia has worked over the past 40 years. I didn't realize how poorly put together the student protestors were in that the crowd were. I guess it doesn't compare to the new Left of the 1960s

Nope, they should be embarrassed by how they act - totally, like, 1920's Dude!