MAJ Ehrhart - Increasing Small Arms Lethality in Afgh.

[Sylvan]

Can we weigh all these changes against this...

"We trained hard . . . but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization." Petronius Arbiter, 210 B.C.

A false attribution.
But an apt quote.

[JMA]

A false attribution.
But an apt quote.

and the correct attribution is?

[Ken White]

LINK.

The all knowing seem to constantly stumble over small things. Amazing..

The false attribution to P. Arbiter is deemed due to the fact that no one likes to credit Americans with capability for original thought. S'Okay, we're used to it and don't mind a bit...

[JMA]

LINK.

The all knowing seem to constantly stumble over small things. Amazing..

The false attribution to P. Arbiter is deemed due to the fact that no one likes to credit Americans with capability for original thought. S'Okay, we're used to it and don't mind a bit...

Charlton Ogburn, "Merrill's Marauders", thank you I stand corrected.

Now "Merrill's Marauders" was some outfit!

Distinguished Unit Citation: "The unit must display such gallantry, determination, and esprit de corps in accomplishing its mission under extremely difficult and hazardous conditions as to set it apart and above other units participating in the same campaign."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrill's_Marauders

We need some more of that derring-do in the current conflicts.

[jmm99]

reading the results of such derring-do at breakfast, would become very upset by the casualties - from the Wiki:

A week after Myitkyina fell, on August 10, 1944, the 5307th was disbanded with a final total of 130 combat-effective officers and men (out of the original 2,997). Of the 2,750 to enter Burma, only 2 were left alive who had never been hospitalized with wounds or major illness.

The cost to the Chindits was as great, but did generate at least two good books by Chindit brigadiers - Bidwell, Shelford (1979). The Chindit war : the campaigns in Burma, 1944. London: Hodder & Stoughton. OCLC 221110416; and Masters, John (2002) [1961]. The Road Past Mandalay. London: Cassel. ISBN 0304361577.

While the campaign exemplified bravery and courage under impossible conditions, its long-term strategic goals never came close to being realized - and a lot of good men were killed for little lasting purpose.

Regards

Mike

[JMA]

...While the campaign exemplified bravery and courage under impossible conditions, its long-term strategic goals never came close to being realized - and a lot of good men were killed for little lasting purpose.

How close it this to an accurate description of the situation in Afghanistan?

[Kriegs]

I looked through this thread and couldn't find what I needed, hopefully someone knows offhand:

Would there be such things as ballistic tests done on the Mk262 round against the M855 green tip that are available on the interwebs?

[Ken White]

We need some more of that derring-do in the current conflicts.

derring do, no question -- but on balance, they were only marginally effective militarily and what little they did achieve was at excessive cost. I've talked to several former members and most were and are quite proud of their service but have little good to say about the efforts overall effectiveness.

Different time. While daring action occurs on a small scale and locally today, it is not broadly tolerated in the west. Those days are gone, they were killed off by the politically correct movements of the 70s and are highly unlikely to return short of a major, existential war. Risk avoidance is all too prevalent today, a societal (and thus quite difficult to reverse), not a military impact.

[JMA]

derring do, no question -- but on balance, they were only marginally effective militarily and what little they did achieve was at excessive cost. I've talked to several former members and most were and are quite proud of their service but have little good to say about the efforts overall effectiveness.

Sadly it seems the same will be written about most of the forces deployed in Afghanistan.

Different time. While daring action occurs on a small scale and locally today, it is not broadly tolerated in the west. Those days are gone, they were killed off by the politically correct movements of the 70s and are highly unlikely to return short of a major, existential war. Risk avoidance is all too prevalent today, a societal (and thus quite difficult to reverse), not a military impact.

So exactly is the point of going into action in Afghanistan then?

[Ken White]

Sadly it seems the same will be written about most of the forces deployed in Afghanistan.

Probably not but it today is, as I said, a different time, different even to your and my wars, much less Burma in WW II.

So exactly is the point of going into action in Afghanistan then?

I'm the wrong guy to ask. You'll need to ask G. W. Bush who made the determination to stay there or B. H. Obama who made the decision to continue the effort there. I agreed with going and toppling the Taliban. I did not agree with staying. I do now believe we cannot leave to precipitously but neither can we stay indefinitely (which has always been true and is why I didn't and don't agree with the decision to stay...). No win situation -- it always was.

[Vojnik]

Different time. While daring action occurs on a small scale and locally today, it is not broadly tolerated in the west. Those days are gone, they were killed off by the politically correct movements of the 70s and are highly unlikely to return short of a major, existential war. Risk avoidance is all too prevalent today, a societal (and thus quite difficult to reverse), not a military impact.

Ken, I will respectfully disagree. In fact, when I was a young LT in the Army fighting in Iraq in 2003, my platoon single-handedly escorted the 82nd Airborne Division Chorus (see link) across Fallujah from Division HQ in Ramadi.

If a bunch of Soldiers in ascots singing and dancing doesn't epitomize "daring action", then I don't know what does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1IjaJwLz58

My post is related to the topic at hand b/c I'm pretty sure every one of my soldiers wanted to shoot the Chorus with something larger than 5.56mm.

[Ken White]

My post is related to the topic at hand b/c I'm pretty sure every one of my soldiers wanted to shoot the Chorus with something larger than 5.56mm.

"...it is not broadly tolerated in the west."

(emphasis added / kw)

Friend of mine was at one time the CSM of the 407th S&T Bn and thus was the Godfather of the Chorus at the time -- and he wanted to shoot 'em.

I missed them. Fortunately, they came along after my time.