MAJ Ehrhart - Increasing Small Arms Lethality in Afgh.

[Pete]

Anyway I think nobody questions the capability of a well-proven, open-sighted WWII era bolt-action rifle like the Enfield.

The Enfield line had aperture sights, but with apertures large enough to acquire targets and see in low-light conditions. The SMLE had a flip-up ladder-type rear sight mounted forward of the chamber; the No. 4 and 5 Enfields of World War II and the early Cold War had aperture sights mounted behind the receiver.

Around 1900 U.S. Army Ordnance and the American arms industry emulated Mauser by favoring cock-on-opening bolt action rifles. The Enfield line was cock-on-closing, which allows a faster rate of fire. From around 1900 until around Pearl Harbor rapid manipulation of the bolt was a major Infantry task taught by NCOs in both the British and U.S. Armies, with the SMLE and M1903 Springfield respectively.

The M1903 Springfield was really more of a target rifle than a combat weapon, its design having been heavily influenced by the competitive shooters in the U.S. Army. The "amber shooting glasses" crowd had taken over firearms design and Infantry tactics in U.S. Army Ordnance -- just take a look at an early-model M1903 and try to figure out what all the settings are for on its rear sight. For a while during the late 1930s the NRA was implacably opposed to the M1 Garand because it challenged the holy icon status that had been gained by the M1903 Springfield.

[Pete]

The No. 5 Enfield had a prominent role in the emergencies in Kenya and Malaysia, though from what I've read the special ops troops there who could get them carried the U.S. M1 Carbine when they could lay their hands on one. That too was a carbine that was not without its deficiencies.

I read that the "Jungle Carbine" appelation given to the No. 5 Enfield was the invention of a U.S. mail-order arms dealer advertising in the American Rifleman during the 1960s, probably the one which used to advertise on the inside of the back cover. The advertising was lurid -- "a military-made sporter, complete with a flash-hider and recoil pad." The name stuck and is still used today.

[Kiwigrunt]

Not only the Taliban...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...nfield-rifles/

[Pete]

Some years ago it was said on an American gun forum that during the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s the U.S. Government purchased Canada's war reserve of No. 4 Enfields and sent them there. It was the ideal weapon for that place, rugged and virtually maintenance-free. However, the statement about the Enfields and their shipment there was not backed up with any references, footnotes, links or anything else to verify its accuracy. Thus it's more dubious chaff on the Internet, maybe true, maybe not.

[Fuchs]

Afghanistan and a certain area in Pakistan had afaik three phases of favourite unauthorised copies of foreign weapons:

#1 some 19th century blackpowder rifle, forgot the designation or pattern
#2 Enfield rifle
#3 AK

[Pete]

People in the Indian subcontinent are genuises at reverse-engineering firearms, car parts, and parts for household appliances -- stoves, refrigerators, so forth. An Indian guy I talked to 20 years ago said he thought we were nuts for junking cars and appliances the way we do. He thought the entire repair-parts industry was a rip-off because craftsmen could make the parts for much less. The difference has to do with pay scales in the U.S. compared to the Indian subcontinent.

The problem has to do with manufacturing quality. Which Browning Hi-Power 9mm would you want, one from FN in Belgium or a handmade knock-off from Peshawar? What quality or grade of steel is being used?

Britain pulled out of India in 1947. Since then India, Pakistan and Bangla Desh have tried to keep the rail and ferryboat systems the British built them going with their negligent version of maintenance. Every year there are stories about railroad bridges collapsing, trains jumping the tracks, ferryboats sinking. The news stories talk about 150 dead here, 350 there.

[ganulv]

Not only the Taliban...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...nfield-rifles/

That photo makes my right hand ache. Is a bolt action more reliable than an automatic in frigid temperatures? I have read about urinating on M1 actions in Korea, for example.*

*Though I have a couple of Korean War veterans in my family and neither has ever mentioned doing any such thing. Maybe because they were hillbillies who knew their way around a rifle prior to wearing a uniform. Though I don’t understand how you would get off more than at most one magazine’s worth of rounds before your formerly warm urine had iced up the mechanism.

[jmm99]

a nice, sunny day (note shadows) - and these guys are probably too warm (most hoods are flipped back):



Down here in the south, we have a rather temperate winter climate (usually above 0 F; lake effect from Lake Superior) - so I've never had to pee on a weapon. Though I did pee on a partridge once. Damn bird was under the snow cover (deer season) and came out right between my legs.

Regards

Mike

[120mm]

Afghanistan and a certain area in Pakistan had afaik three phases of favourite unauthorised copies of foreign weapons:

#1 some 19th century blackpowder rifle, forgot the designation or pattern
#2 Enfield rifle
#3 AK

#1 would be Martini-Henry, or a 1853 Enfield Musket-rifle, I am sure. It's about 50/50 what I see the most.

I'd call it four. #1 1853 Enfield, #2 Martini Henry, #3 Enfield bolt action, #4 AK

[120mm]

One thing we could do, as an Army, to improve Small Arms effectiveness, is to stop buying complete crap for supporting gear and installing gear correctly.

#1 on the complete crap list is the Blackhawk! Serpa holster. Fragile, effectively locks the pistol into the holster at random intervals, and has been proven to fire the piece upon extraction from the holster. Most reputable stateside training companies have banned students from bringing them. But 95% or so of all soldiers you see with a pistol have it riding in one, assumedly paid for by Uncle Sugar.

#2 on the installing gear correctly list is the M68 Aimpoint Close Combat Optic. Designed to be mounted as far forward on the upper receiver as possible, and aimed with both eyes open, it has become SOP within the US military to run it all the way back, safety wired on by some moron armorer. Soldiers still complain about it "obscuring their vision" which just reveals that they were trained incorrectly on it.

#3 on the complete crap gear list is the "Grip-pod". It is a fragile POS that is only really useful for propping up M4s in the DFAC. Too long to serve as a vertical grip, the bipod inside it makes it too fragile for hard use.

[Kiwigrunt]

I'd call it four. #1 1853 Enfield, #2 Martini Henry, #3 Enfield bolt action, #4 AK

In the not unforeseeable future to be replaced by #5 M16....kindly supplied and sponsored by....

[120mm]

In the not unforeseeable future to be replaced by #5 M16....kindly supplied and sponsored by....

Frankly, the market for crappy M16s is somewhat saturated by domestic makers like Bushmaster, Armalite, DPMS, Olympic and Rock River Armory, so I don't think the guys making guns in a cave in Darreh Adam Khel will be able to compete for the M16s.

[Pete]

The No. 4 Enfield .303 was actually a 1931 design that the British didn't put into production until '43 or '44 due to funding cutbacks during the period between the world wars. There is a lot of parts commonality between it and the earlier SMLE, which was the main rifle used by the British and Commonwealth forces during Wars I and II. The No. 4 Enfield wasn't replaced until around 1954, when the FN-influenced Self-Loading Rifle replaced it.

Those 7.62mm NATO rifles of the Cold War of the '50s were IMHO the Golden Age of military rifles -- the SLR, FN-FAL, the M14, and H&K's German G-3. They were rugged, reliable, accurate to long ranges, and had knock-down power.

[JMA]

Those 7.62mm NATO rifles of the Cold War of the '50s were IMHO the Golden Age of military rifles -- the SLR, FN-FAL, the M14, and H&K's German G-3. They were rugged, reliable, accurate to long ranges, and had knock-down power.

Pete, you are going to start something now. There is a whole generation of soldiers who have never fired a proper rifle in anger. Sad.

[Pete]

Those old 7.62 rifles were designed for the old proverbial "Full Spectrum of Operations" -- be it armor and mech infantry stuff in Western Europe, the jungles and rice paddies of Vietnam, the hills and mountains of Korea, and just about everywhere else. You could do rapid fire in a close-range 30-yard engagement or you could do careful aimed fire at targets 600 meters away, with the sling wrapped around your arm.

Edit:
Some of the problem regarding the M1 and M14 had to do with training, not the rifles themselves. Ordnance gave us these fine weapons with all their capabilities, but the main-force U.S. Army prefers to put guys through shake-and bake rifle markmanship qualification courses and then leave it at that. Thus the old statististics about how most kills are at short ranges and that therefore a rifle like the M16 is the way to go.

The "Amber Shooting Glasses" crowd needs to realize that this isn't the 1930s any longer, when the Army spent the whole summer at the range popping caps. To improve marksmanship the shooters need to propose curriculum changes that add only a few more hours on the range, not a lot. Their proposed changes to marksmanship instruction should be to add 20 more hours of instruction, not 200 more. If they do the latter nobody in the Army will listen to them.

[ganulv]

#1 would be Martini-Henry, or a 1853 Enfield Musket-rifle, I am sure. It's about 50/50 what I see the most.

I'd call it four. #1 1853 Enfield, #2 Martini Henry, #3 Enfield bolt action, #4 AK

I don’t know if it has made the rounds on the forum, but this morning I was browsing C. J. Chivers’s website for Libya updates and came across this.

[Fuchs]

Pete, you are going to start something now. There is a whole generation of soldiers who have never fired a proper rifle in anger. Sad.

I'd be happy if there was never again a generation of soldiers who have fired a rifle in anger.

[kaur]

At page 16 this thread, there was talk about Australian with AK.

Here are Americans with AK.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011...-counterstrik/

[davidbfpo]

Kaur,

The video is for an "armchair observer" slightly confusing, at first I thought those with AK47s were contractors, then some were in uniform, with vests and helmets. Then I spotted an unusual shoulder badge, 00:45 & 00:54 for examples and that is the flag of Macedonia - who have a small, company sized detachment in country.

For flag and details see:http://www.isaf.nato.int/troop-numbe...ions/index.php

[kaur]

It seems that you are right. Take a look also at machine gun at 1:06.