Marine's going rogue?

[Schmedlap]

It's sort of like the SOF - Big Army battle in the Army. The guys on the ground work it out but the Staffs types do not.

I can personally vouch for that. My Company coordinated often with an ODA in our AO on my second deployment. They always emphasized that, "our [higher] doesn't know we're talking to you" and they asked that, in return, we wouldn't share the information with our BN HQ. The arrangement struck me as bizarre, but I came to understand the dynamic on my third deployment, which was with a JSOTF.

The JSOTF staff was paranoid about sharing intelligence with CF and having them "steal our targets" or "burn our sources" or similar SNAFUs. I do think that some of these concerns were justified because the difference in sophistication was extraordinary and it seemed easy to envision someone misusing a source or some intel. The manner in which SF develops sources is several orders of magnitude more sophisticated than what I saw in the CF world. Their intel collection, in general, was so well funded, equipped, manned, and executed as to make any CF S-2 shop, imo, a joke.

My impression was that some kind of mutually beneficial arrangement could have been worked out, but the staff over-estimated the incompetence of CF units whom they shared "battlespace" with. On my earlier deployment, the ODA kept sharing intelligence with us because it was a mutually beneficial relationship. If we lower-ranking folks with less "professional education" could figure it out, why can't two staffs full of higher ranking Officers and NCOs who are supposedly more educated and experienced figure it out?

[Ken White]

The JSOTF staff was paranoid about sharing intelligence...The manner in which SF develops sources is several orders of magnitude more sophisticated than what I saw in the CF world.

Been there seen that and very much agree. Hopefully the AWG will continue to migrate that expertise. That may or may not happen but it is a problem and the CF has on occasion totally blown some effective SOF efforts In fairness, SOF has undercut the CF on occasion as well. Both sides are guilty and many thing contribute.

...If we lower-ranking folks with less "professional education" could figure it out, why can't two staffs full of higher ranking Officers and NCOs who are supposedly more educated and experienced figure it out?

Because our training and our PME are poor; we are conditioned not to trust people; we are too often excessively branch / community / tribe loyal; and the young guys have not yet developed the stifled, stilted and excessively conservative, risk avoiding "I don't know you..." view of the longer serving...

At least that was the prob in Korea and in Viet Nam and post VN in my observation as a DAC for almost 20 years. I very strongly doubt it's changed for the better...

[jcustis]

Having just now passed through Leatherneck, and Bastion (which is just next door), as well as COP Dwyer, I can relay from first-hand experience that the reason those sites are where they are has everything to do with the old airfields that they were sited on.

And although Leatherneck is big and a dizzying warren of ISO containers and life support areas, there aren't a lot of amenities. The Danes have a nice exchange over on Bastion, and I almost bought a Snugpack jacket at the British exchange for a steal, but there isn't a whole lot of comfort (besides ice cream) there either.

[JMA]

Having just now passed through Leatherneck, and Bastion (which is just next door), as well as COP Dwyer, I can relay from first-hand experience that the reason those sites are where they are has everything to do with the old airfields that they were sited on.

And although Leatherneck is big and a dizzying warren of ISO containers and life support areas, there aren't a lot of amenities. The Danes have a nice exchange over on Bastion, and I almost bought a Snugpack jacket at the British exchange for a steal, but there isn't a whole lot of comfort (besides ice cream) there either.

What? No Burger King? No McDonalds? No Pizza Hut? But we were told...

[Ken White]

Different rules from the US Army...

Plus it is not completed -- all the amenities come after everything else is finished. Well, theoretically anyway.

[jcustis]

Yep, it is not finished yet. As I tried to stay up with my PT, I could see flat acreage being levelled for as far as the eye could see.

The emphasis is on ASNF though, from what I can tell, and all of their requisite training, support facilities, and such.