Force Ratios (the old 3-to-1 rule)

[slapout9]

I do not agree, but as to why, wait for my thesis.

Can you tell us when that will be?

[JMA]

I am.... and all the ideas contained in that article are actually a plea to recover to the basics, and raise the bar. In point of fact, there is little wrong with the actual practice of UK infantry training. The fault lies with the ideas that underpin it. UK infantry tends to be very well built, but just poorly designed, if that makes sense.

It is the system of the rifle section that is the problem. There you (UK) have an evolving structure. Take this article as the start point for discussion:

The Infantry Section: Lifting its Capability of June 2007.

Now the problem is with all these orgs and structures is for what war were they planned for? Have meaningful adaptations been carried out to cater for Afghanistan?

The weight factor is revisited in the article. Its the body armour that is the problem, not the other stuff.

Lunatic Health and Safety exist anywhere that UK troops do. Kenya makes not odds. There is also Cyprus, which is probably one of the best Coy and Platoon training areas anywhere in the world. - BUT, I also believe that some infantry training in the cold and wet is very essential, as that sort of environment really tests determination and personal administration.

The Health and Safety gestapo is self inflicted... so no one but the Brits can help themselves on this score.

I think you are missing my point.

This one month training phase (I am talking about) should be part of basic training and carried out as early as possible. Once the troopies pass out or the cadets get commissioned, then yes, for an army that my fight anywhere and everywhere over the world training should be carried out in as many environments as needed (or more realistically as can be afforded).

All environments have their challenges. For example I've seen snow a handful of time in my life and been in it twice... so training in that environment would have been a real challenge for me and the other locals.

BTW on my Cadet course in 1974 we did a weeks Outward Bound training. We enjoyed it. I'll email my course officer and see what he felt the army got out of it.

[William F. Owen]

The Infantry Section: Lifting its Capability of June 2007.

Now the problem is with all these orgs and structures is for what war were they planned for? Have meaningful adaptations been carried out to cater for Afghanistan?

The weight factor is revisited in the article. Its the body armour that is the problem, not the other stuff.

I have a number of issues with that article, but the basic message about Body Armour needs to be taken way more seriously than it is currently.

I had an article in the same publication here. - and I would now modify some of that position.

The Health and Safety gestapo is self inflicted... so no one but the Brits can help themselves on this score.

Inflicted via the Government via Europe. - Just like the Land Mine ban.

I think you are missing my point.

This one month training phase (I am talking about) should be part of basic training and carried out as early as possible.

I don't think I am. I have had numerous discussions about a "Knife and Mess tin" type course and/or "Outward Bound/Adventure training." - It has great merit providing it is applied at the right time for the right reasons. Personally I wouldn't restrict it just to officer training, but there again, I wouldn't start training anyone as an officer until he had at the very least completed Basic Training anyway.

[TAH]

Concepts like 3 to 1 ratios are only valid when comparing like or similar capabiity systems, weapons or units.

comparing the average WW2 infantry platoon armed with bolt-action rifles and a limited number of MGs to any of today's cutting edge infantry with magazine fed assault rifles, ICOM intra-squad comms, body armor etc will reveal that a straight comparison of numbers only is invalid. The concept of Relative Combat Power was an attempt by the US during the late 80s early 90s to address this issue. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it did not.

[JMA]

I don't think I am. I have had numerous discussions about a "Knife and Mess tin" type course and/or "Outward Bound/Adventure training." - It has great merit providing it is applied at the right time for the right reasons. Personally I wouldn't restrict it just to officer training, but there again, I wouldn't start training anyone as an officer until he had at the very least completed Basic Training anyway.

OK so we can agree that this sort of training has merit. I suggest that it be carried out early in the training. And yes as the modern requirement for more individually skilled and reliable soldiers across the board increases all soldiers should receive this training.

We can revisit the desirability of officers having been trained as basic soldiers before being selected for officer training if you wish. I put it to you it is not the (comparative) inferior basic training that is important but rather the experience of soldiering in the ranks for a year (including basic training) which has the value.