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  1. #11
    Council Member Ken White's Avatar
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    Default That's a collection of sensible statments - that do not respond to the request.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
    Ken, this is all about knowing your enemy. If the enemy in Afghanistan can't be identified and dealt with is there any wonder why the situation there is getting to be so "difficult"?
    Uh, no, not at all. Most of us understand that's a significant part of the problem that is Afghanistan. however, stating that obvious fact doesn't answer the query: "...hopefully you have some suggestions on how to accurately determine which variant he happens to be..."

    Thus I take it you have no viable suggestions.
    One minute we are being told that the fight is for the "hearts and minds" of the villagers (assuming that the Taliban is some outside force demanding support from the same villagers), the next we are told is that the same villagers are actually the ones using weapons against ISAF. Which one is it?The first, the second or both?
    Umm, how about "'C,' both of the above."
    If its the second or both then surely its time to admit the war for the "hearts and minds" has been lost (in that particular village)? If so then getting rid of the poppies and the opium trade will have no affect on already offsides villager?
    Rather simplistic, don't you think? What about the relatives and friends of those villagers in nearby villages? What about tribal cohesion and xenophobic reaction to outsiders killing local no matter what the problem. More importantly, what about the opinions of those citizens of the western nation whose troops were / are involved and who strongly disagree with your "offsides" assessment or the right of their troops to even make such an assessment in the first place...
    Who said anything about shooting civilians?
    No one. However, your 'gloves off' statement is a really neat example of plausible deniability. Good job.
    If the 'farmer' is a part time insurgent then he is fair game for detention or whatever? Like a bank robber, he does not rob banks everyday but makes a hit now and again when a target presents itself.
    True, and while the Rules of Evidence in the criminal sense do not fully apply, the wily P'than are masters at feigning innocence and outrage at attempts to accuse them of such perfidy. All gaming on their part, I know -- as do the Troops -- but the constraints of western civil society are applied even where totally inappropriate. More regrettably, the media types present in Afghanistan either do not understand just how wily the guy is or they sympathize with him regardless. In many senses, Afghan opinions while important, are not nearly as important as are those of the citizens of western nations involved...

    All that forces the Troops to just keep slogging in a sea of frustrations. That, as they say, is COIN writ large. Regrettably, most such operations and third party interventions are like that. Rarely is one fortunate enough to find the unique series of circumstances that existed in Rhodesia...

    So I can put you down as, like the rest of us, having easily identified the readily apparent problem but having no ready or real solution.
    Last edited by Ken White; 07-08-2010 at 02:52 PM.

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