Quote Originally Posted by RJ View Post
William with respect, as a former Marine Squad Leader I submit the following experiences by the Marine Corps as proof enough for we who have been there

Iwo Jima, Okniawa, The Chosin Resevoir, The Battle of Hue City, The March Up to Bagdad and Fallujah II.
All testaments to the courage and determination of the the USMC, plus it's supporting arms and fires. It does not constitute empirical evidence in regard to the utility of the separated Squad HQ

The economy of putting a squad leader in the dual role of SL and FTL in an 8 man squad reduces the power of the support base by 35%. As in 35% less rounds moving down range in supressing the enemy.

It , in my opinion, would be the worst of both worlds. A weak unit with a dual-role SL who in the heat of battle is going to fight his fire team and focus on that and not the other fire team.
Economy is the word. The whole argument/discussion on the size and organisation is not about absolute numbers. What the argument lacks is how do you organise X-number of men, for a given mission or task, not "how big is the squad."


This commentary on the 8, 9 and 13 man squads on up to a 20 man squad has the ability to become the "never ending story".

I submit 6 decades of success in combat with a 13 man squad works for the Marines!
Concur

The tour of a Marine Expeditionary Units in Helmand Provience this year seemed to have worked quite well. 500 to 600 dead opponents and only a single civilian casualty and a handful of Marines killed or wounded might be a model to study and learn from.
...and there is a Royal Marine Company, in Helmand that may have achieved a greater Loss Exchange Ratio


William Owen, How long has the UK had your squad configeration? And what were the composition of the squads before your current size? What were the squad sizes in WWI?

Were they bigger than today? The huge losses in that war
must have influenced changes that are still being felt.
The current UK Section dates from 1985 as two mirror Fireteams. Prior to that we had an 8-10 man section organised as a Gun Group and Rifle Group. 10 men was the "War Time" establishment.

In 1918 the Section was 7 men but there were 4 sections not 3. There were 2 x Lewis Gun Sections and 2 x Rifle Sections. In 1934 they scrapped this excellent scheme to have the 3 combined sections, with the Bren Gun.