Hi Bob,

Quote Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post
My point is simply that insurgency (violent political struggle within a state) and conventional warfare (violent political struggle between states) are different.
I suspect that you are falling into the fundamental ontological error of assuming that such a "thing" as a "state" exists in and of itself. "States", whether modern or ancient, are, like all social institutions, constructed by humans as a result of various and sundry activities which may (broadly) be called "politics".

Where the "difference" comes between "convention" and "insurgency" is in the perception of a) causality of conflict and b) the development of cultural and social conventions to contain that conflict. Indeed, "democracy" is another form of "violent" political struggle with (assumed) non-kinetic cultural conventions.

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that the assumption of the existence of a "state" as real in and of itself lies at the heart of much of our problem with the current conflicts we are fighting. We are required by cultural and inter-social conventions to act as if "states" exist but, when we do, we have a nasty tendency to assume they are real, and that leads to all sorts of problems and operational paradoxes when our cultural assumptions about what a "state" should be and how it should act run up against other peoples assumptions. This type of "the emperor has no clothes" realization is even more readily apparent when we kick out the existing "state" and put in a new one.

This problem (technically a "breech" in our assumed reality), turns around and really highlights the problems with a lot of our doctrine and operational stance. For example, the entire concept of "poor governance" or "corruption" assumes particular socio-cultural standards of both, and the ascribes causality for an "insurgency" to them. Why? Probably because that is what caused a number of them in our own past political history. That, my friend, is the real definition of ethnocentrism - the ascription of a cultural assumption as a universal law.

So what happens if we through out the assumption that 'states" exist as anything other than socio-cultural constructs? Well, for one thing, it forces us to be a lot clearer on what our campaign intentions are. It also highlights the ways in which campaign planning would have to change, and that specifically includes what political institutions should be imposed / changed.

Quote Originally Posted by Bob's World View Post
When tasked to help suppress an insurgency, the first thing the military commander should (who should be the resident expert on warfare in the room) say to that Civilian leader is along the lines of :

"Yes sir, we can help solve this problem; but understand that the fact that we are faced with an insurgency is a pretty damn good indicator that the government is failing a significant segment of the populace in a major way. So lets meet back here in two weeks. I'll have 2-3 solid COAs on how the military can assist in the operation and you should have a good idea as to how you plan to address the failures of governance that brought us to this sad point where you are prepared to employ our military against our own populace. I'll also have with me a letter of resignation that I hope I won't have to submit, but if your position is that you simply want the military to punish that segment of the populace that dares to act out, you will need to find another man for the job."
One of the "insurgencies" that we never seem to discuss is the Liberal Revolts of 1847. I think that it would really help clarify some of our thinking in this boundary zone (i.e. the interface zone between politics, warfare, insurgency, policing, etc.) to take a look at how they were handled in the Austrian case from 1847-50. Very little "fighting", and the entire "revolt" (and separation) of Hungary ended when their own minorities "rose up" against them.

Part of the reason why this is a useful case is that it is primarily "political" (i.e. non-kinetic conflict) and that it happened at a time of fairly rapid technological change, which makes it a useful analogic case. As an added bonus, it is one of the few really good European instances where a "state" and a "people" are not the same which, BTW, tends to be another one of those nice little ethnocentric assumptions about "states" that we have.

Anyway, I need more coffee .

Cheers,

Marc