Quote Originally Posted by Rhodesian View Post
Sirs
But I'm not and was not a sir -- I did get promoted -- but only 'cause I managed to stay alive all over the world before and after there was a Fire Force. Still never got to the 'sir' level...
the surprising response was, “Don't tell us what to do, we have flown all over the world.” This incident became rather infamous inside Rhodesian circles as an “obvious” sign that the “Brits don't really know what they're doing.”
Surprising and disappointing display of arrogance and willful ignorance (as opposed to real ignorance). Brits are bad about that, so are we Americans all too often. No excuse for that, shame on 'em.
...Fire Force and why it isnt happening in Afghanistan has equally gone the way of the Herc - We got the cross in the wrong place, we wont admit it, we wont move it, and when questioned we'll use words like, “It wont work, it cant be done, it costs too much, what cross are you talking about, what's a helicopter, and who the £*$! cares about little Johnny Bravo anyway?”
Could be. I don't see it that way but discussion boards are an imperfect communications medium. I missed anyone saying any of those things, particularly that last and there are enough people here who have worried about a bunch of Johnny Bravos and are worrying about them as we comfortably write back and forth on a board to make that a comment in rather poor taste .
This aside, if we are discussing the relevance of the application of over-whelming vertical force within the Afghan theatre etc, then Fire Force was a good example of how to up a kill rate.
Totally agree but I don't think we were. Rightly or wrongly, that hearts and minds BS permeates UK and US society and political thought -- and therefor, military action. Now. Hasn't always been that way and likely will not be at some time in the future, everything goes in cycles...

Our emphasis, no matter how misplaced, is not on the kill rate for most of the force. For that small part where that is emphasized most of your concerns are met but no more details make it into print than did some Fire Force or other Rhodesian actions at the time of the ops, that all tumbles out later.
Rhodesian culture is what made Fire Force work.
Excellent point and I totally agree. No question about it. Be nice if modern western types had some of those attributes. Unfortunately, times and mores change and we mostly -- not all -- don't nowadays. Kids from Liverpool and Los Angeles are not going to react the same way nor are senior Army types from Surrey or Kansas. That doesn't even address the fact that you guys did a great job of cutting the BS and bureaucracy to fight an existential war while we are flooded with an almost Byzantine bureaucracy, BS in ten pound bags and fighting, lackadaisically, a minor war of choice. We don't have to be there and most everyone knows it. That makes a difference. A huge difference.
A lot of the discussion held here is coming from people who “have flown all over the world,” telling everyone, some in a sarcastic manner, why FF wont work, cant be done, it's too scary, it might kill people, its really gonna annoy the ROE inspectors, and we might even get rockets fired at us etc.
I didn't see all that much sarcasm but agree with rest -- only pointing out that the guys who would have to do it (except for the helicopter jockeys who really do tend to worry with good cause about RPGs up tail pipes) are not the ones who have those concerns; it's their nominal civilian bosses back in the States and Whitehall. I didn't see any suggestions re: what to do about that...
LIST {omitted}... I am sorry sirs, but it's embarrassing to see all the hand wringing from those who have “flown all over the world.” China, YOU PUT YOUR £$%^&* CROSS IN THE WRONG PLACE. FIX IT!
I won't respond to your list by item. I will merely point out that what you folks did in one war against one enemy in one place at one time in one set of circumstances was great, it really was. However IMO trying to apply it almost verbatim to another war fought by other people with differing political rules and parameters in another time and place is just as surprising and disappointing a display of arrogance and willful ignorance (as opposed to real ignorance) as were the RAF with their crosses.