Quote Originally Posted by Red Rat View Post
I disagree. What is at issue is not the level or extent of violence brought to bear here, more how that violence is brought to bear and what that says about us. Warfare is a human endeavour involving passions and emotions, it is not merely a technical affair about what technical systems we use or not. It is not an issue of ROE, it is perhaps an issue of limited v unlimited (war) in how much political risk a government is prepared to accept vis a vis casualty rates. My gut feel remains that in small wars especially, there is a moral element where you have to demonstrate conclusively that it is impossible for the other side to win militarily. At the micro level that involves bringing the fight to the enemy in a way that the enemy recognises and respects; bringing the fight to the enemy and beating him.

It does link into limited versus unlimited warfare in that we are fighting a limited war where we are not only limiting the means we bring to bear, but also the risk we are prepared to take. I think there is a powerful message we are sending by not physically allowing our troops to close with the enemy(either because we weight them down with so much kit, constrain them with TTPs or make commanders casualty intolerant). IMHO we are saying that we are prepared to fight, but not fully. We are saying that we have a limited moral commitment, are prepared to take a limited risk with it. All the other side has to do is recognise that and match or better our limited commitment.
I am a little concerned that concepts like limited and unlimited war are being applied to company, platoon and section level activities. How does one limit the violence of a company or a platoon attack?

Is it like what we saw in the TV series "Ross Kemp in Afghanistan" where contact is made, the troops pull back, wait for an air strike, return to base after the air strike claiming victory?

If you have not got the political will or the bottle for the war casualty risk then rather stay inside the FOBs and hardly ever venture out (much like the Germans are doing). If you keep pushing your troops out into harms way then at least don't tie their one hand behind their back.

It seems the Brit army has nothing to fear except their own politicians and general staff.

I often wonder whether it is appreciated how much harm has been done to the reputation of the British soldier and the British Army through the Basra debacle and the current goings on in Afghanistan? Its an absolute disgrace.

I think that the character of any given conflict is the product of the societies involved in that conflict. In cases where the nature of the societies are so very different (such as AFG and the West) the 'how' we fight is important. If we are fighting 2 different types of war neither side may recognise or accept that the other is winning, possibly in a physical sense and certainly in a moral sense.
There is one unequivocal answer to all this and that is the kill rate per contact. If for every 20 Taliban who take on ISAF only 3 or four survive then very soon they will run out of recruits other than the crazies who want to be suicide bombers or just plain commit suicide.

"How" ISAF fights must be based on what it will take to break the spirit and will of the Taliban and the population supplying their recruits. Get into their heads. I just don't think it will be possible given the current western mindset.