Quote Originally Posted by motorfirebox View Post
Fair point, but it remains that gender-integrated units are performing in combat.
Only sort of. Those MP units that you point to have all sorts of problems for their leadership that simply don't exist in Infantry (and other segregated units). And those co-ed units simply don't do the same type of operations. MP units generally run FOB to FOB, and don't stay out and live hard for long periods of time. When they do, you can bet that the leadership generally find a way to leave all or most of the females on the FOB, and deploy an all male unit.


I don't doubt there are problems. There also problems with clashes and race and creed, and while the latter two tend to cause problems on a smaller scale than gender, it is a matter of scale rather than quality.
I don't understand this. These units perform, at a much lower standards on easier missions. That's just the way it is. I doubt you will find a male officer or senior NCO that will argue that co-ed units improve combat effectiveness, which is what the issue should be about.

A change doesn't necessarily need to improve combat effectiveness in order to be accepted. It merely needs to a) have some value, and b) not significantly degrade combat effectiveness. It is not in line with our national values to solely consider military effectiveness. If it were, well, for one thing, Afghanistan and Iraq combined would have taken maybe three years to pacify.
All right, what value does ending DA/DT provide?

There is absolutely a right to try to serve. Yes, defects and other factors can bar one from service. But unless such a condition actively detracts from military readiness, then it should not be a bar to service.
Where is this right found? I haven't seen it anywhere. Or are you arguing that there should be a right to serve.

Other nations--nations whose military capability we respect--have integrated homosexual soldiers and, in some cases, female infantry (though that's a topic for another thread) without apparent significant impairment. I would like to believe that our soldiers are just as capable as theirs. Hell with that, I'd like to believe ours are better.
And when you talk honestly with their leaders (not constrained by political correctness), they will tell you that both changes cause issues that result in lower combat effectiveness. In an existential conflict (you know, one where the enemy has the capability to destroy our nation, like where we are fighting in the streets of LA, NY, etc) we might have to accept the lower combat efficiency in order to generate the massively greater requirements of such a conflict. As long as were are sending miniscule cadres of professionals to execute (relatively) short duration missions of choice, I don't see any reason to accept anything less than optimal combat effectiveness.