Homosexuality and Military Service (Merged thread)

[motorfirebox]

Agreed and very frightened by what this means for America.

"The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man." - G.K Chesterton, Chapter 19, What I Saw In America, 1922

I can understand that. I don't mean this as an attack on you or an attack on religion, but the reason I can understand it is that I'm fairly frightened of what it would mean for me if the religious right regained control over the US. I think the religious right would outlaw about 75% of my lifestyle, including my sex life--I'm not gay or bi, but I'm not married and I'm not refraining.

But I don't think the argument that without God there can be no equality is really reasonable. A logical premise for equal treatment of all humanity can be arrived at without religious dogma. It's fairly straightforward: it hinges on the acceptance of the idea that circumstance does not define the individual. The idea of rejecting circumstance hinges on the idea of free will (now, some people reject that free will exists, but I don't think it's worthwhile arguing with those people). If one has free will, then circumstance is at most a modifier to one's actions, not the ultimate determinant. And if circumstance does not define an individual, then one must to some extent disregard circumstance when it comes to determining the value of other human beings. If you disregard circumstance, then you accept that all humans are indeed created equal.

And on top of that... I'm not sure it matters where the basis for equality comes from. Let's say you're right and the only reasonable basis for equality is Christian dogma. Well, Christianity has had over two millennia to get equality right, and it's only been in the last two centuries that it's arguably even started on the right path. The previous thousands of years have been filled with countless human horrors perpetrated by people who could show you a strong theological basis for their actions. Again, I'm not attacking Christianity or religion, here--Pol Pot didn't need God to give him a reason to commit atrocities, after all--but the evidence simply doesn't support the idea that having a basis in Christianity, or any other religion, or any lack of religion, matters in the end when it comes to creating societies that treat all humans equally.

Which makes sense, really. I've studied the Bible fairly extensively, and I don't recall Jesus ever saying that his words were intended to create good nations. Just good people.