Quote Originally Posted by Blah View Post
In my opinion, the adequacy or inadequacy of the 5.56's lethality could be argued all day, but in the absence of any satisfactory scientific studies on the matter, the only things that can be provided are anecdotes.
It is not an issue that can be decided by "scientific studies." There are too many variables in human physiology and psychology (both shooter and target, two almost infinite variables right there...), in range, in atmospheric conditions, weapons quality and cleanliness, time of day, vision aids, shooter's ability, cartridge consistency and other factors to really do that. Nor is there any need.
That said, there are more concrete and indisputable attributes of both 5.56 and 7.62.
To isolate 2: The 7.62 provides superior penetration of light cover, potentially allowing troops to end the engagement faster. The 5.56 allows a greater amount of ammunition to be carried, letting them operate longer without resupply.
Those are a few for both, there are more, not least range. Add recoil and ease of training...
All very obvious stuff. My question is... If we were to go back in time to 2003 and make 7.62 the service cartridge, would we have been hearing about troops running out of ammo in 2 minutes instead of insurgents taking 30 rounds and not falling? (Hyperbole was intentional)

I often hear something along the lines of, "You cannot carry enough 7.62 in a modern war!" I've never heard an actual quantitative figure stated. How much ammo do you "need" exactly? I realize there is no "average" firefight, which makes the answer to that question more elusive. However, the less that number is, the less the difference in weight between those 2 cartridges. Something to keep in mind.
Not really. State of training of troops and / or their net combat experience (not time in a 'combat zone' but actual fire fight experience) make a tremendous difference in the amount of ammo carried and used. Basically, the newbies fire on full auto or just fire a lot; the old guys do not. New people will want to carry a LOT of ammo, ten or more magazines plus a few cartons in the pack.

Consider the fact the the basic load for a rifleman in Korea was a full cartirdge belt plus two bandoleers. 10x8 + 2x6x8 = 176 rounds occasionally plus 8 in the M1 for a total of 184. Initially many new guys wanted a couple of more 6 clip bandoleers -- so the old guys who didn't want to carry unnecessary weight would hand over theirs. Old hands went out with 88 rounds and rarely fired all of it while the new guys had 2-300 or more and tended to fire it all in a day...

Viet Nam saw the same thing except with 20 round magazines. Seven was the issue norm, thus 140 rounds -- but the new guys scrounged extra mags and carried cartons, sometimes as much 10 mags plus ten or twelve cartons -- 400 or more rounds. Not likely many ever fired anywhere near that. Most older hands carried their seven mags and found that was more than enough.

Same thing is happening today. I saw an article last week on the topic on present day experience in Afghanistan. Can't find it right now but I'll keep looking and if I find, I'll post a link on this thread.

Bottom line on amount of Ammo is that it's absolutely METT-TC related. One may need more or less than the planned basic load depending on the mission -- but the fact is that a statement like this ""You cannot carry enough 7.62 in a modern war!"" is totally specious IMO.