South China Sea and China (2011-2017)

[davidbfpo]

In a BBC report on the PRC's aircraft carrier is a small map of the South China Sea and the disputed islands (my IT skills preclude placing it here):http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13692558

The dotted line showing China's claims do make one pause for thought.

[slapout9]

Don't worry about the south china sea look what they want to do in Boise,Idaho.



http://endoftheamericandream.com/arc...of-boise-idaho

[carl]

Slap:

That story is a little breathless, the implication being the thousands of Chinamen are going to be establishing an enclave in Idaho, sort of the Shanghai legations reversed. I'll believe it when I see it. If the Chinese want to build businesses and facilities in Idaho, essentially giving us money, let 'em at it. The Idahos won't care who signs the paycheck as long as it doesn't bounce.

The story also contains this quote:

"The borrower is always the servant of the lender, and now China is buying up America."

That is true unless you get into really big money, then the situation is reversed. Or so says Donald Trump.

[slapout9]

Slap:

That story is a little breathless, the implication being the thousands of Chinamen are going to be establishing an enclave in Idaho, sort of the Shanghai legations reversed. I'll believe it when I see it. If the Chinese want to build businesses and facilities in Idaho, essentially giving us money, let 'em at it. The Idahos won't care who signs the paycheck as long as it doesn't bounce.

The story also contains this quote:

"The borrower is always the servant of the lender, and now China is buying up America."

That is true unless you get into really big money, then the situation is reversed. Or so says Donald Trump.

Carl, maybe you are right but what I thought was most interesting was the concept of a self sustaining city.....what exactly does that mean? Invasion by we(China) have a better idea on how to run things.

[AdamG]

China warned Asian neighbors Thursday to stop searching for oil near the disputed Spratly Islands and vowed to assert its sovereignty over the potentially petroleum-rich territory in the South China Sea despite rival claims.
China and the Philippines have swapped diplomatic protests over the islands, with Filipino officials accusing Chinese forces of intruding into Manila-claimed areas...

http://www.newsday.com/business/chin...1.2942569?qr=1

[Backwards Observer]

The newly youthful (26!) Lee Kuan Yew comments (article seems partly Engrish translation):

Former Prime Minister of Singapore Lee Kuan Yew, 26, said that the U.S. is able to counterbalance the growth of China as the sole full strength, so keeping the U.S. interest in the region is very important.

Lee Kuan Yew is on the “Future of Asia” at the annual meeting to clarify this point. Asia-Pacific Annual Conference brings together the country’s political leaders and business leaders.

He said, the key is to keep American interest in the Western Pacific region.

His hundreds of entrepreneurs, academics and students, said: “You can beat Japan, South Korea, ASEAN, even with Taiwan and India, but you can not compete in China. It is too big. Only the United States and its advanced technology to counterbalance China. “

Lee - Only the United States and its advanced technology to counter China - China News - June 5, 2011.

[Ray]

US not coming to PH aid vs China

The United States yesterday said it will not side with any party in the Spratlys conflict, which is to say that the Philippines’ most powerful ally will not be coming to its aid should its spat with China escalate into a shooting war.

The US Embassy made this clear yesterday in reaction to a Malacañang statement earlier yesterday expressing confidence that Washington would honor its commitment under the two countries’ Mutual Defense Treaty to come to the aid of a beleaguered ally.

“The US does not take sides in regional territorial disputes,” the US press attaché Rebecca Thompson said in an e-mailed statement when contacted for comment to deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte’s invoking of the 60-year-old MDT.

Thompson said the US was “troubled by incidents in the South China Sea in recent days that have raised tensions in the region” and that Washington opposes “the use or threat of force” by any of the countries with rival claims to the Spratly islands.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/14118/u...h-aid-vs-china

This would upset those who have any strategic relationship or Defence Pact with the US and none would like to enter such agreements in future.

[Backwards Observer]

This would upset those who have any strategic relationship or Defence Pact with the US and none would like to enter such agreements in future.

You would probably know better than me, but my guess is that this is most likely to upset those who may see their relationship with the US as a 'let's you and him fight' arrangement viz Johnny Chinaman. US sleight of hand is probably best employed offstage in the opening acts of these affaires de coeur. I don't think the US willingness to go Deus Ex Machina on people's asses is really in doubt if it should come down to projectile flinging. Things may be different from what I imagine, however.

[Ray]

US Eyes Singapore Base

June 6, 2011

The US Navy will establish a new presence in Singapore as a staging location for its latest class of warship.

Defence Secretary Robert Gates announced plans for the presence during his visit to Singapore last week.......

According to the Singaporean Defence Ministry, those steps include deploying to Singapore ‘one or two’ of the new Littoral Combat Ships current under construction in the United States. The 400-foot-long, high-speed warships, optimized for shallow-water operations, would be the first US military vessels permanently stationed in the tiny Southeast Asian country, although the Navy for many years has maintained a support facility there.

http://the-diplomat.com/flashpoints-...ingapore-base/

[Dayuhan]

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/14118/u...h-aid-vs-china

This would upset those who have any strategic relationship or Defence Pact with the US and none would like to enter such agreements in future.

This is nothing at all new... the dispute is old and the US position is as well. The US considers the Spratlys to be disputed territory, not an integral part of the Philippines... which makes sense, because deciding these disputes is not in any way up to the US. Given this, Chinese military action in the Spratlys is not regarded as an attack on the Philippines and would not trigger the mutual defense pact. Again, this has been the US position for ages, and comes out every time the issue comes up, as it has done periodically for decades.

There's a big difference between being willing to protect allies from actual attack on their territory and taking a blanket position of support that actually encourages allies to take an unnecessarily bellicose stance that could provoke a conflict that would benefit nobody. I don't see that kind of common sense as a disincentive to anyone who wants a mutual defense relationship with the US.

[Ray]

US, Philippines to hold war games amid tension in South China Sea

The United States and the Philippines are set to hold naval exercise amid heightened tension in Western Philippine Sea following allegations of intrusion by Chinese Naval personnel in the Philippine-occupied area of the disputed Spratly Islands.
Philippine military authorities said though the the joint naval exercise has nothing to do with the reported Chinese incursions in Philippine territories, according to Armed Forces spokesman Commodore Jose Miguel Rodriguez.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...#ixzz1P4zY6msy

Thar she Blows!

[AdamG]

Vietnam has raised the stakes a little more in its current row with China, calling on the United States and others to step in and help find some kind of resolution.

http://the-diplomat.com/china-power/...-foreign-help/

[Backwards Observer]

I don't mind getting high sounding even if others roll their eyes when I do,

Carl, I don't know about high sounding or eye rolling, but at least you're willing to come on the council and engage with people who may not agree with you. There's plenty of them that spout off on the Taiwan issue that don't.

[slapout9]

So what's Vietnam, the Philippines,Taiwan,and Malaysia done for the United States lately? I just saw on the news that some Congressman went to Iraq and told their president that since things are going so well over there now they can start paying us back for the war like President Bush said they would. He was asked to leave Iraq! Point being we don't get any respect in the world because we are willing to fight and pay for others people's problems. If China wants to drill of the coast of VIETNAM for oil....hey good for them!

[carl]

Slap:

It is not what those countries have done for us lately, it is what they can do for us in the future. Take a look at the map, if we told those countries to go pound sand, they would be forced to make an accommodation with China, most certainly including basing rights for them and none for us. That would make it impossible, impossible to prevail in any kind of conflict with China. That being the case, Japan and South Korea would be forced to go over and the Aussies would mandate Mandarin studies from the second grade onward. And that would just be the beginning.

[AdamG]

MANILA -- Philippine lawmakers on Monday called for the immediate abrogation of the Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) between Manila and Washington, which they claim to be unbeneficial to the country.

Anakpawis party-list Rep. Rafael Mariano said the pronouncement of the United States Government that it will not help the Philippines should its conflict with China over the disputed Spratly Islands escalate into a shooting war "only proves that the MDT is a mere piece of paper that doesn’t bind the two countries at all."

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/manila/loc...-treaty-160990

[AdamG]

The Vietnamese Prime Minister, Nguyen Tan Dung, has issued a decree about a potential military call-up -- amid rising tensions with Beijing, over disputed territory in the South China Sea.

The decree outlines who would be exempt from the draft, if war breaks-out. Vietnam said Chinese vessels recently cut or damaged cables towed by Vietnamese ships. Beijing said the lives of Chinese fishermen were endangered after their vessels became trapped by the cables.

Hanoi conducted live fire naval drills yesterday which mainland media denounced as a show of force in defiance of Beijing.

http://rthk.hk/rthk/news/englishnews..._56_762325.htm

[Ray]

US senators submit resolution rapping China over sea disputes

PTI | 02:06 PM,Jun 14,2011

Washington, Jun 14 (Kyodo) Two US senators have submitted a resolution condemning "the repeated use of force by China" over territorial disputes in the South China Sea.The resolution was jointly introduced yesterday to the East Asian and Pacific Affairs Subcommittee by Jim Webb, a Democrat from Virginia, and James Inhofe, a Republican from Oklahoma.As examples of China''s use of force in the waters, the resolution says three Chinese vessels, including two security ships, ran into and disabled the cables of an exploration ship from Vietnam last Thursday.In March, the Philippines reported that China''s patrol boats attempted to ram one of its surveillance ships in the area.The resolution calls for "a peaceful, multilateral resolution to maritime territorial disputes in Southeast Asia" and supports the continued operations by US forces to "assert and defend freedom of navigation rights in international waters and air space in the South China Sea." Several countries, including China, the Philippines and Vietnam, have disputed territorial claims over the Spratly Islands and others in the South China Sea.(Kyodo)

http://ibnlive.in.com/generalnewsfee...es/725489.html

China warns outside nations to stay out of sea dispute

BEIJING, June 14 (Reuters) - China vehemently opposes external powers meddling in territorial disputes over the South China Sea, the main military newspaper said on Tuesday, after Vietnam asked for international help to defuse tensions over the potentially resource-rich region.

The warning in the Liberation Army Daily coincided with exercises conducted by Vietnam's military along its central coast, and follows a weekend statement by Hanoi welcoming efforts by the international community, including the United States, to help resolve the disputes.

China and Vietnam have hurled accusations at each other for weeks over what each sees as intrusions into its territorial waters by the other in a swath of ocean crossed by key shipping lanes and thought to hold large deposits of oil and gas.

Such accusations are not uncommon between China, Vietnam and the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan, which are also involved in long-standing maritime disputes in the South China Sea, but this bout of tension has run longer than usual.

The commentary in the Liberation Army Daily repeated Beijing's warning that other "unrelated" countries should back off, adding the Chinese military's weight to that message.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7HE0GR20110614

[carl]

The Americans recently signed a document, at an Org. of Amer. States meeting I believe, calling for negotiations between Great Britain and Argentina about the status of the Malvinas. They used Malvinas instead of Falklands in the document. That may be a small thing but it may be indicative of attitudes.

This has not pleased some of the British. Adm. Woodard commented in an article that if he were PM he would have been on the next plane to DC to ask "Hang on a minute; we’re your closest ally – what the hell’s going on?"

The link to his article is here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...#ixzz1PG3LEynB

This happening may be germane to this discussion. Its import is that this is the British we are talking about. It is not about geo positions, oil, international amity, legal arguments about ownership history and sovereignty, it is about who these guys are. These are the British. We've been battling opponents side by side with them since 1917. You'd think we would be willing to say Falklands instead of Malvinas or at least "the islands in question located at lat x long.

Now I believe this is the kind of things all those countries in China's path may notice. It is one of those little things that you do in order show determination. But we didn't do it.

[davidbfpo]

Carl,

The USA's diplomatic stance on the Falkland Islands or Malvinas was made public a year ago, so this latest episode is "huff & puff". What was more interesting was how Admiral Woodward's letter turned to current UK ability to defend the islands:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...d-Islands.html

Few watch Anglo-Argentine relations closely as currently Argentina has ruled out the use of force and relations are reportedly good. Not so long ago Argentine troops were serving under the UN in Cyprus, their support base was - yes - the British bases.