Ray:

I think that it is important to remember that very many Americans disagreed with the US action as it actually occurred in Iraq (really over many different periods, missions and leaders), myself included with a long list of much more distinguished US military and diplomatic leaders (including Ambassador Crocker).

The issue in 2007/2008 was not whether to occupy all of Iraq, put Bremer in charge, de-Baathify, force adoption of a quick and ineffective transitional constitution (which may have created as many minefields as it cleared), to attempt to become Iraq's public works and construction department, etc., etc., etc...

The issue in 2007/2008 was how to effect a civilian transfer to a viable and willing Iraqi structure (even if it might take years for them to find their better paths).

Afghanistan in 2011 is the same set of problems multiplied by many other factors, and I remain concerned that, to date, some have been so fixated on staying that they have lost the thread of the ultimate mission which must be to leave.

I look at some of the levels of problems in a very different way: Assuming a direct link between Afghan instability and the ISI and close Chinese relations as are always reported, doesn't it make sense, for example, to have a Chinese built railroad through Afghanistan to Gwadar? If ISI controls instability, then they logically could create stability for important infrastructure that could, in many ways, establish betterments for Afghanistan?

Much more effective to have a "friendly" third party do such things than a graft and insecurity riddled US or International aid effort. Trade to that port obviously will create ties to India. May even open trade links with Iran.

If all of these things are "bad" for our mission (connecting Afghanistan WITH its neighbors) then there must be something wrong with our core strategy.

Personally, I have my fingers crossed that the new Ambassador has, or will shortly, begin building our way out (regardless of the press flak he may put up in the process). He is the guy, after all, who was in the process of negotiations with Pakistan and Iran at the time of the "Evil Empire" speech that blew all that up.

I just which that we would learn to achieve realistic successes under credible missions without first having to explore every other possibility first.

I have a button, still on my Iraq memory wall, that says "Will Fight for Peace!"

In these end state periods, a conclusion will not occur unless someone is actively fighting for it.