MAJ Ehrhart - Increasing Small Arms Lethality in Afgh.

[Fuchs]

Bursts...500 meters.

I smell propaganda (or incompetence).

[kaur]

First hit; second, third missed?

[Fuchs]

Even IF he was hitting consistently (and wasting 2/3 of the cartridges with burst instead of single shots):

His "I was knocking down targets" creates the illusion that such hits would be effective, which is grossly misleading. 5.56 mm is at that range more like a small calibre pocket pistol bullet at short range.

[ganulv]

5.56 mm is at that range more like a small calibre pocket pistol bullet at short range.

Which would kill anyone not wearing body armor dead enough.

[carl]

Even IF he was hitting consistently (and wasting 2/3 of the cartridges with burst instead of single shots):

Isn't 33% hits at that range a very good result for somebody who has not been to some kind of special school?

[Fuchs]

@ganulv: Such hits are lethal only in a handful spots.

Isn't 33% hits at that range a very good result for somebody who has not been to some kind of special school?

Fifth week of basic I scored 70% hits with G3 (with an old 4x scope) on 450m and was asked why I was missing so much (I did because I was erroneously compensating when in fact I was hitting, but target didn't fall because it was already too perforated).

More evidence it's propaganda:

(...)than the SAW without the steel links in belt-fed ammo that add bulk and weight for the gunner(...)

As if magazines were weightless.

Textile belt pouch + steel links weighs less than textile mag pouches + mags IIRC.

[ganulv]

@ganulv: Such hits are lethal only in a handful spots.

Oh, I know. If you at one point in your life thought a used lever action .30-30 was the best Christmas gift you could possibly receive you might still be a little bit of a redneck. I realize that lethality is ideal if you soldier for a living, but that doesn’t mean I want anyone pointing their .22 rimfire anywhere near any part of my body.

Textile belt pouch + steel links weighs less than textile mag pouches + mags IIRC.

You Germans and your hang-up with optimal engineering. I’m speaking ironically, I don’t think it is a bad thing. My undergraduate advisor’s father served as DOT&E under Clinton and from time to time pops up in the American media portrayed as a shill for the Democrats. My advisor told me that his father’s guiding principle in life is “Does it work?” and that that was more than enough to earn him plenty of ire in D.C.

[Vojnik]

Understand your point Ken...I don't know, when I was on exchange with the British Army they were not too keen on the LSW (5.56mm mag fed weapon). While it has been over a decade since that experience, the general feeling seemed to be that the LSW was really only a DMR.

Of course, the other argument is that the gunner carrying the SAW only has 100rds in a "nutsack" available for immediate use.

Kaur, I understand the "3 rds in 18" at 500m" concept, but that seems like that's not quite the point of a squad suppressive weapon. I thought a "machine gun" was supposed to provide a beaten zone of fire in order to kill/injure within that beaten zone, to provide sustained or cyclic grazing fire in the defensive, or to suppress the enemy to allow fire and maneuver...i.e., I don't just want one guy getting shot in the chest, I want 7-8 guys to either be hit in a cone of fire, or at least fixed and unable to move or shoot back at me whilst I try to blow them to smithereens.

So if I can't use the IAR for suppressive fire...what do I do with it? In what situation should I be using automatic fire from a magazine fed weapon at greater than CQB range?

Not being saractic, I'm honestly open to new ideas.

[carl]

Fifth week of basic I scored 70% hits with G3 (with an old 4x scope) on 450m and was asked why I was missing so much (I did because I was erroneously compensating when in fact I was hitting, but target didn't fall because it was already too perforated).

True I'm sure but how many guys who are on patrol today in Afghanistan can do that or would be able to make 33% hits at 450m when shooting at people?