KJ, Chowing, Everybody,

The work week is over...mostly...hopefully Fuchs will forgive some of the sidebar...

Quote Originally Posted by KingJaja View Post
The age of European empires is over and so is the age of conquest via assimilation (although American televangelists seem to be very successful on that front in Africa - that's a topic for another day) is over. In that regard, Iraq and Afghanistan was a $1 trillion dollar social science experiment that went terribly wrong. (A more realistic people, less blinded by their own hubris would have seen it coming, though).
Hmm...this is a very interesting observation that i often wonder about (having spent two years in Iraq). I wonder if you are willing to provide a conscise breakout of the baseline conditions, timeline, criteria/dimensions, and geographic areas which you are measuring?

When we (US) and everybody else(World) looks at the 'deliverables' of GWOT/OIF/OEF and then goes on to define success or failure i wonder if consciously and unconciously comparisons are being made to the Marshall Plan and the follow on results?

For my breakout, i want to first say that war is a very, very, blunt, imprecise, inaccurate, and bloody instrument. Furthermore, there are usually better ways to effect change than resorting to war. My observations are further limited to Iraq...are of 2003 and of 2010...are broad brush strokes...and address Kurdistan and 'The Rest of Iraq', as two separate entities. Baseline conditions in Kurdistan in 2003 included a mix of agricultural community, and functional infrastructure (UNDP despite it's flaws was getting things done), functional rule of law, functional security, a functional business community, and a nascent telecommunications backbone. 'The Rest of Iraq' suffered from threadbare infrastructure (held together with bailing wire and bubblegum in many instances), a confessional/tribal type rule of law, dysfunctional and deteriorating security, not quite equal part official and grey-market business communities, and no cell-phones-internet-satellite-tv for telecommunications. Seven years later i was amazed at the wild leapfrogging of Kurdistan towards the conditions of the 'second-world' (between poverty and prosperity). 'The Rest of Iraq' had made tremendous strides with respect to telecommunications yet infrastructure, rule of law, security, and the business community seemed to be at least ten years of dedicated effort behind Kurdistan.

IMHO a portion of the 'trillion-dollar-GWOT-rock' which we dropped into the oxbow lake that was Iraq in 2003 has served in some ways to reconnect it to the river that is globalization, and has had additive effects upon the wave that is the Arab Spring. The Arab World is not Europe however, and i wonder if the resultant trend veered more towards a Morgenthau Plan type deliverable in some dimensions...all sides have to cooperate in order to build...

Quote Originally Posted by KingJaja View Post
You cannot change a people by merely sending a few to Harvard!
vs.

Think about it, the most visible fashion trend in the World today is not the proliferation of blue jeans but the popularity of the hijab.
Marketing Strategy/Market Segmentation tells us that trends can be started/increased by influencing 'key people'/'target markets' does it not?

With respect to the hijab as uber-trend, let's run some quick napkin math. There are approximately 7 billion people in the world. China has ~ 1.3 billion, the majority of whom are non-muslim and who follow 'non-hijab' fashion. India has 1.1 billion, the majority of whom are non-muslim and who follow 'non-hijab' fashion. Africa has ~ 1 billion, the majority of whom are non-muslim...~350 million live in the middle east...~500 million live in 'Europe'....these observations seem to be in keeping with the wikipedia entry which states that ~1.6 billion people in the world are Muslim...half of which are female...and what percentage of those wear the hijab?

As to the burning of the Koran...this issue is a senseless one on all sides, and all of us know that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...yet...all of us read history and know that the clash of religions/demographics is an endless continuum of man's inhumanity to man...