End the All-Volunteer Force

[Ken White]

The British military record is no more spectacular than any other European power... I'm not concerned about small unit performance as I am with definitive and favorable terminations of conflict.

Without small unit performance there will be no definitive terminations of conflict. As for favorable, that too often lie in the realm of the Politicians -- and conscription won't fix that.

More pointedly, did you miss the word Commonwealth in there?

There's a clear, documented relationship between the US draft 1940 - 1973 and American prosperity in that era...

There's a clear documented relationship between government policies, societal norms and prosperity in that era. The relationship of conscription is that it existed, no more.

There's also a clear relationship between present US defense spending with the all-volunteer force and the political and economic consequences of military policy.

I'm not at all sure it 's clear but what is emphatically clear is that Congress not only has abrogated its responsibility with respect to the Armed Forces and wars but to virtually all its fiscal responsibilities as well. Conscription won't fix that and, based on the historical record is highly unlikely to induce broader citizen involvement.

It's a lack of political will fueled in part by public apathy, which in turn is a result of the gradual separation of Americans from the policy process and its consequences.

Said separation dearly loved by the governing classes who have tacitly encouraged that lack of involvement for years -- and, again, conscription won't change that...

That's the point of Ricks' argument.....

What? That we can change spoiled brats by forcing them to do something they don't want to do? Good luck with that.

Again I'll point out that this is not about fixing the force or even the political milieu -- it's about sociological tinkering and determining what's 'best' for the masses by self appointed pseudo elites. Don't join that crowd, you can do better...

Socialism is the about the social ownership of the means production, which has nothing to do with conscription.

Oh? Have you not suggested that conscripts could perform 'other public services?' Is that not social ownership of a means of production?

Socialism is also a political philosophy and it is noted for an elite directing things be done as they desire for the' common good' (as THEY see it) -- regrettably, the common folk generally get little say in how that will work .

Governments of all kinds, most of them not socialist, have used conscription at one point or another.

As has this one which is more Socialist than many...

Nice gimmick though.

Not a gimmick as you well know; the charge was that conscription was like socialistic dreams. That is accurate. Like socialism which has never really worked (because people are involved; that and the right persons have never been in charge...), conscription works well for producing mass, cannon fodder Armies -- and is good for little else -- and to tout it as a panacea is living in a dream world. Been there, done that -- it works but poorly and it's still involuntary servitude and it still has remarkably little effect on governance and adventurism.

It's not American society spending trillions of dollars and producing little in the way of favorable and definitive political outcomes for America's conflicts. Since 1973, it's been the all-volunteer force. The AVF has had mixed results in winning America's wars.

That's true and you and I can probably agree that the Army is broken and truly in need of a major overhaul. We would probably agree on many things and disagree on some -- but on conscription as a cure, we'll have to disagree . Implement and it will make little to no difference, it will as I and others have tried to point out, make some things worse -- not much, admittedly but worse of any degree is not better...

Note also that American society elects those Congroids who spend trillions of dollars on a lot of really dumb stuff other than idiotic and unnecessary wars and who eschew responsibility for ANY hard decisions to curtail or cope with that spending -- or the wars.

So yes, it is the military, not American society which the military serves, that needs fixing.

We can disagree on that. The AVF like every other Army, conscript or not, is a reflection of the society from which it comes. If you don't like an Army look at its roots -- that's where your problems will lie. Always.