Londonistan: Muslim communities in France & UK

[davidbfpo]

An interesting long range analysis of the French and UK response to their Muslim communities, by a French academic, Professor Gilles Keppel: http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=22920

It originally appeared in February 2010, but I only re-discovered it today. He is a sometimes controversial voice, as indicated by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_Kepel

Largely for historical reasons IMHO neither the UK or the USA closely look at how France has responded to the violent Jihad and Muslim communities. Plus of course the language barrier.

SWC has looked at French COIN a few times, within other threads and I fear the most visual lesson was watching 'The Battle of Algiers'.

Cross-cultural articles like this are worth reading and so here it is.

[davidbfpo]

The phrase Londonistan dates back a few years, from Wiki:

Londonistan is a pejorative sobriquet in use by parts of the media referring to the British capital of London and the British Government's tolerance of the presence of various Islamist groups in London and other major cities of Britain as long as they carry out their controversial agendas, ideologies or terror campaigns outside of Britain.

Or Omar Nasiri:

The mid- to late 1990s were the years when Britain's capital earned the sobriquet of `Londonistan,` a title provided by French officials infuriated at the growing presence of Islamist radicals in London and the failure of British authorities to do anything about it. Raids in France and Belgium had produced phone and fax numbers linked to the United Kingdom, and names of suspects were passed on. Some French officials believe that if more had been done by Britain at the time, the network behind the summer of 1995 bombings might have been broken up and the attacks prevented

Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonistan_(term)

In a fascinating, detailed and lengthy, article two UK analysts have provided an update; published online in JUly 2012 and only just found 'UK Islamists and the Arab Uprisings' in Current Trends in Islamist Ideology, Volume 13:http://www.currenttrends.org/researc...arab-uprisings

Some real surprises, like the defection of a Muslim Brotherhood activist who returned to Egypt.

From the conclusion:

UK Islamism, like Islam in Britain as a whole, remains very much a cacophony of disparate trends and a work in progress whose ultimate trajectory is hard to determine. Given the enormous diversity of Islamist groups and individuals in the UK, no single pattern defines Islamists’ reactions to the Arab Spring. At the same time, however, the Arab uprisings have clearly shaken up the often stagnant waters of British Islamism, catalyzing change and accelerating existing trends; sometimes triggering new moderation and pragmatism, in other instances reinforcing existing extremist views.....(my emphasis) it is already clear that while many Islamists arrived in the West hoping to change it, it was instead in many cases the West that changed them.

[Fuchs]

it is already clear that while many Islamists arrived in the West hoping to change it, it was instead in many cases the West that changed them.

This is also easily visible with most second generation 'immigrants'.

The troublesome asshole radicals are the converts.
Converts in general (between churches, religions, sects, ideologies, political parties etc) tend to be extremists in their discipline.

[Surferbeetle]

Dame Stella Rimington talk at the Chautauqua Institute on August 16 2012, covered by CSPAN2; Radicalism, Reality, and Romance

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Romanc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella_Rimington