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#881 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,119
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Quote:
Almost like 'The Accident Guerilla' argument.
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davidbfpo |
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#882 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 596
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Is that myopia or what? Nobody in Nigeria cares whether Boko Haram is an "African Al Qaeda" or not.
Are we going to wait until full-blown, sectarian, Lebanon-style crisis blows up until we realize the danger Boko Haram poses? |
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#883 |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,058
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The answer to your question is probably.
Glad you reappeared, was getting worried that you'd wandered off...
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#884 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,844
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Posted by KingJaja
Quote:
AQ affiliation is just one concern, but is the periscope we tend to view the world through, which too often blinds us to other important issues that can have an impact on our interests. Nigeria is important whether or not AQ is present, it is the largest nation in Africa, it is the HQs of ECOWAS which does a fair job of retaining some degree of regional stability in W. Africa, and it produces a fair amount of oil. The bottom line is if the situation in Nigeria escalates significantly it will most likely further destabilize the region due to direct spill over from its borders and indirectly by degrading ECOWAS. All that said I don't know what the U.S. should do that it isn't doing already? |
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#885 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 596
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A few things the US should do.
1. Declare Boko Haram (the entire organisation) as an FTO. Already prominent Islamic clerics have openly challenged BH and for the US to hide behind "political correctness" might be misconstrued as acquiescence. 2. Understand the internal dynamics of the struggle. The Southern Christian population will react, but BH is also reaction to the Northern Muslim establishment. The future unity of Nigeria is seriously at stake - this is what should worry ALL analysts. |
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#886 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denison, Texas
Posts: 114
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The number one danger that Boko Haram posses is that it is fully operational and has a devastatingly violent track record in Africa's most populous country. That in itself is of enough concern for the world community to take notice.
Fact of the matter is the AQIM and Boko Haram have each claimed "communication" and "ties" with the other. This may all be rhetoric, but there is enough smoke to cause pause and concern. Sorry, that I have been away for awhile. |
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#887 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denison, Texas
Posts: 114
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Quote:
Quote:
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#888 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Latitude 17° 5' 11N, Longitude 120° 54' 24E, altitude 1499m. Right where I want to be.
Posts: 2,554
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Quote:
The designation could produce the impression that the US is considering intervention (the reaction to AFRICOM suggests that US pronouncements are routinely exaggerated and misconstrued), and could accelerate internationalization of the conflict. It could provoke attacks on US or other foreign targets, which BH has so far avoided. Understanding is always worth pursuing, but I suspect that the best course for the US to take is to quietly pursue understanding while avoiding any step that would suggest involvement.
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“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary” H.L. Mencken |
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#889 | ||||
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,844
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http://www.voanews.com/articleprintview/1382336.html
US Congressional Panel Examines Boko Haram Violence in Nigeria Quote:
The study at the link below produced last DEC is a quick read that provides a fair overview in my opinion. Obviously the situation has escalated since DEC. http://bakerinstitute.org/publicatio...ram-121611.pdf Quote:
Quote:
June 13 BH announced: Quote:
Overall still a lot of unknowns, but definitely deserves continued vigilence. |
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#890 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 596
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I've made this point severally - a wrong diagnosis leads to wrong prescriptions.
The prism through which Boko Haram is viewed in the West is the "War on Terror", that is very wrong, because it obscures us from extremely important issues. Africa's most populous nation is tottering, reeling from the effects of a Niger Delta insurgency and now an Islamist insurgency - its future is uncertain. A question to be asked is "what can the US/West possibly do?". You start answering the question when you realise that these problems are political (at least that is how they are interpreted in Nigeria). Nigeria has never really been stable, we fought a Civil War in sixties and I think it is high time we recognise the inevitable: either we split or we renegotiate the basis for continued unity. This is where Western diplomatic effort should be concentrated. It is counterproductive to work towards maintaining the status quo, when the status quo is extremely unstable. |
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#891 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 596
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This is the sort of nonsense peddled in Nigeria and the US refusal to designate Boko Haram as an FTO only feeds the narrative that the US is somehow behind Boko Haram in an attempt to destabilise Nigeria and seize our oil.
Quote:
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#892 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,119
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Slightly edited
Quote:
For a host of reasons neither the USA or the West can make such a diplomatic effort to alter the status quo. They simply cannot take such a political stance, even if quiet diplomacy was possible and I would argue they are not the best parties to help. Too many vested interests are involved, including oil, the African stance on re-drawing borders would mean such diplomacy would cause anger even amongst friends. There are a few smaller Western nations that could help quietly, including non-state parties. For example IIRC the Italian missionaries in Mozambique and the Norwegians in Palestine. A better example, much higher profile too were the various efforts made to end apartheid in South Africa. First though I must ask do Nigerians themselves recognise that: Quote:
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davidbfpo |
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#893 | ||
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,844
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Posted by Kingjaja
First you write this: Quote:
Quote:
Where do you stand exactly if you have a stance? |
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#894 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 596
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David,
Nigerians see the need to renegotiate the basis for continued unity: Quote:
If it isn't done peacefully now, it will be done violently in the near future. The window of opportunity is closing fast and the 2015 elections are an important watermark. |
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#895 |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 596
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Bill Moore,
1. One can walk and chew gum at the same time and the US Government should be able to do so. 2. The Tamil Tigers are FTO, and they have nothing to do with the GWOT (and neither does Joseph Kony and the mad men he leads), BH fits the description of an FTO and should be labelled as such. 3. Designating two men as "terrorists" and giving the organisation they lead a free pass, is not only illogical and nonsensical but it reeks of hypocrisy. Many Nigerians are of the opinion that the US is shying away from designating Boko Haram as an FTO because they fear that the Northern Muslim elite will win elections in 2015 and control the oil resources - predictably, the US doesn't want to antagonise them. 4. Nigeria's Internet penetration rose sharply from 6% in 2010 to over 20% this year. We are dealing with an increasingly well informed population (in a nation of 160 million), and if the US didn't take public opinion seriously in the past, it should take it now. 5. Finally, it questions the credibility of the FTO classification business. You guys don't realise that Nigeria and US are partner on many initiatives in Africa. You don't also realise that Nigeria is "democratising" rapidly and that public opinion is more important today than it was decade ago. The US must be seen to be transparent in its dealings with the Nigerian people. I have a quick suggestion here, either designate BH Haram as an FTO or discard the entire FTO classification business. |
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#896 | ||||
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Council Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Latitude 17° 5' 11N, Longitude 120° 54' 24E, altitude 1499m. Right where I want to be.
Posts: 2,554
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't know, but I suspect that the US is reluctant to designate BH as an FTO because they think it might be seen as internationalizing a domestic conflict and because it might provoke BH attacks on US targets. Those don't seem totally illegitimate reasons to me. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary” H.L. Mencken |
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#897 | |||||
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Council Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,844
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Posted by Dayuhan,
Quote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/th.../2011/jul/15/1 Quote:
Posted by Kingjaja Quote:
The U.S. always take public opinion seriously. Based on your comment it seems you assume your opinion equates to the larger public opinion. I suspect there are a wide range of opinions in Nigeria that are further diversified by the penetration of the internet. Quote:
Quote:
As for not realizing that Nigeria and the U.S. are partners that may be true for some; however, I worked in Nigeria where we partnered them to address some regional security issues. I'm fully aware of their leadership role in Western Africa, which is why I think the BH and other threats to Nigeria are serious threats to our security and economic interests in the region. Not sure why you thought otherwise? |
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#898 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 596
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Quote:
It is extremely risky to antagonise Nigeria's Christian population. |
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#899 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 596
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Quote:
You might not know it, but the Christian Association of Nigeria is quite powerful - and Nigerian Christians listen to the their pastors a lot more than they listen to politicians. |
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#900 | |
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Council Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denison, Texas
Posts: 114
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Quote:
I wonder, Kingjaja, what you think about this new investment initiative by the government. Does its safeguards against corruption and goals for trickling out into the general economy helpful ... helpful in the sense of medium to long term relief? http://www.ventures-africa.com/2012/...n-wealth-fund/ |
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