BBC: Bin Laden raid book offers rare insight

[davidbfpo]

Mark Urban, a BBC journalist and ex-Army officer, who has written several books on the SAS and Northern Ireland, has written a review of 'No Easy Day' by Mark Jones:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19606623

A few of his comments:

What emerges is a vivid portrait of the world in which these people lived, going out on raids so many times to kill or capture suspected terrorists that they all began to merge.

This puzzles me, partly as Iraq is not Afghanistan:

There are signs that the special operations campaign in Afghanistan, notwithstanding the Bin Laden raid in neighbouring Pakistan, has been markedly less successful in reducing the wider pattern of violence than it was in Iraq.

I expect some here will hold far stronger opinions on the book's publication, Urban concludes:

His book, understandably enough, focuses on the door-kickers' view, the dedication of those willing to go up against suicide bombers and extremist leaders, as well as the losses suffered by his comrades.

He has done a service to openness and accountability in writing it.

[davidbfpo]

This Daily Mail article appears a few months ago, I don't recall posting it, but it does provide some context for the previous post on SOF in Iraq:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-granules.html

I expect the story was "spin" and was carefully vetted pre-publication.

[Wyatt]

And by service to openness he did a great disservice to his country, fellow servicemen and word.

[Ken White]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

And by service to openness he did a great disservice to his country, fellow servicemen and word.

Selective "Openness" in service to self isn't of use to anyone else in any event...

[Bob's World]

This author is not alone in his sins.

Someone within the SOF community felt compelled to leak that it was "SEAL Team Six" on this particular raid. There was no need to focus attention on that one organization.

Someone has made "I killed bin Laden" a major platform point in an election bid.

Did a guy actually on the mission seek to grab a little for himself as well? Yes, and he is wrong for that. So are those much higher than him who gave up information or exaggerated their roles as well.

I would like to see us chalk this up as "we screwed this up." See us learn from that and move on with a new mindset that moved these types of missions off the front pages and off the top of our list of approaches for dealing with such problems, and into the shadows of rare, limited operations that are as much urban legend as stated policy.

Instead we will most likely crucify this one operator and blithely carry on as before.

[Fuchs]

Originally Posted by Bob's World

Someone within the SOF community felt compelled to leak that it was "SEAL Team Six" on this particular raid. There was no need to focus attention on that one organization.

Someone has made "I killed bin Laden" a major platform point in an election bid.

That's a grammar error. These " " signs are (in such a context) reserved for actual quotes, not for conjecture. You won't find a speech where he said that or a written piece of his with this line.

The team employed on the mission was one of many that could have been sent. They were exchangeable and did not do anything special, facing negligible or no resistance.


It was a policy decision, he had made a campaign promise to do such a decision if the opportunity arises and he did it. Politicians need to brag about such things, Bush even bragged about things he didn't do and would have bragged endlessly (if not demanding a statue in Washington DC) if he had given the order to kill UBL.

A head of government bragging about policy and decisionmaking success is entirely normal, while (former) soldiers cashing in on wartime secrets before the very same war is over is not usual.

[Ken White]

but that does not make it dignified -- or right.

[Fuchs]

Originally Posted by Ken White

but that does not make it dignified -- or right.

Remember, politics is just as warfare relative.

A crappy army wins against an even crappier one.
A crappy politician wins against an crappier one.

[gute]

Originally Posted by Fuchs

It was a policy decision, he had made a campaign promise to do such a decision if the opportunity arises and he did it. Politicians need to brag about such things, Bush even bragged about things he didn't do and would have bragged endlessly (if not demanding a statue in Washington DC) if he had given the order to kill UBL.

A head of government bragging about policy and decisionmaking success is entirely normal, while (former) soldiers cashing in on wartime secrets before the very same war is over is not usual.

My friend you are totally off base on your first point. President Bush would not have demanded a statue. He is a fairly humble guy. I don't recall him bragging other than the time he said 'bring it on' and that's not bragging. The mission accomplished banner was put there by the navy, not the WH. The one thing I always respected about the Bush Administration - they did not make excuses. Look, I'm not saying it was a stellar eight years, but I disagree with the idea of Bush saying, "Look at me, look at me" - dodging shoes - yes.

Hey, President Obama gave the order so it happened on his watch and he gets to claim it. If anyone for second thought he wasn't go to brag than they need to flush out their headgear.

I read the book and enjoyed it. I don't think it's any big deal, but agree with others that the identity of the unit should not have been mentioned i the first place. I don't recall the outrage over the book Fearless about Seal Team 6 operator Adam Brown and his death in Afghanistan. Okay, the author is not a Seal, but what's the difference. The author writes how several of his Brown's teammates were later killed in the helo crash that happened a couple of days after the OBL raid. I seem to recall the pentagon saying the Seal killed in the bird were regular run of mill Seals and not team six guys.

[ganulv]

Originally Posted by gute

The author writes how several of his Brown's teammates were later killed in the helo crash that happened a couple of days after the OBL raid. I seem to recall the pentagon saying the Seal killed in the bird were regular run of mill Seals and not team six guys.

A number of outlets reported otherwise. I hope whatever they were put into the air to do was worth risking their loss. It would seem to me to be a hell of a waste to send a crew of guys meant to protect the U.S. from true terror threats after some mid-level Taliban commander.

[Fuchs]

Originally Posted by gute

My friend you are totally off base on your first point. President Bush would not have demanded a statue. He is a fairly humble guy. I don't recall him bragging other than the time he said 'bring it on' and that's not bragging.

You probably did not identify his bragging because you agreed with him.
He bragged a lot about his past as a NG pilot, for example.
He also bragged about cutting taxes - all the while he did increase the budget (nominal, real and in %GDP) and create a deficit.

The "humble, nice guy one would like to drink a beer with (despite him being a dry alcoholic!) story is an obvious construction of an image. That's a creation of political advisors, sown by surrogates, PR stunts, books and partisan pundits.

[gute]

Originally Posted by Fuchs

You probably did not identify his bragging because you agreed with him.
He bragged a lot about his past as a NG pilot, for example.
He also bragged about cutting taxes - all the while he did increase the budget (nominal, real and in %GDP) and create a deficit.

The "humble, nice guy one would like to drink a beer with (despite him being a dry alcoholic!) story is an obvious construction of an image. That's a creation of political advisors, sown by surrogates, PR stunts, books and partisan pundits.

Again, I disagree. Bush did not brag about being a National Guard pilot. Talking about it because you are asked about it is not bragging. Bragging about cutting taxes? It was a policy decision. It wasn't cutting taxes that got us into this mess its the spending.

Did you ever think for one second that maybe, just maybe the dude hit a point in his life where he wanted to be a new person? Man, I thought I was cynical. I think you have BDS - Bush Derangement Syndrome. Here's an explanation so you know what you have: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Derangement_Syndrome

We had deficits/massive debt long before Bush.

[Fuchs]

Originally Posted by gute

We had deficits/massive debt long before Bush.

Earth to gute: Bush inherited a budget with surplus, his first own budget turned that into a deficit.
And as I mentioned: GWB increased spending in %GDP. He worsened revenue, spending and deficit. No white spot on his fiscal vest anywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Re...993_-_2008.png

Federal expenses in %GDP were shrinking during the Clinton-Congress combo, but GWB-Congress combo led immediately to higher expenses and drastically less revenues. Same story with Reagan and Bush 41.

[gute]

Originally Posted by Fuchs

Earth to gute: Bush inherited a budget with surplus, his first own budget turned that into a deficit.
And as I mentioned: GWB increased spending in %GDP. He worsened revenue, spending and deficit. No white spot on his fiscal vest anywhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Re...993_-_2008.png

Federal expenses in %GDP were shrinking during the Clinton-Congress combo, but GWB-Congress combo led immediately to higher expenses and drastically less revenues. Same story with Reagan and Bush 41.

Here is a rebuttalhttp://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

We can go back-n-forth on this for days.

[Fuchs]

That article is founded on the same wrong (non-)economics that assert governments (or, for example Medicare) are bankrupt because they don't have the means to pay for future obligation NOW.


We should go back to Bin laden, though.
Fig leaf:

From Duffel Blog:

A major publisher of Navy SEAL memoirs reported today that a U.S. retaliation strike is “imminent” in Libya. Following the news stories of the attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, Random Day spokesman Bill Klein stated that several of their company’s clients called with a preliminary manuscript for possible books.

“The first to contact us was Steve Faulkner,” Klein said. “He is with DEVGRU… you know, the SEAL Team Six guys. Anyway, he called us up late at night and said he wanted to present a new book idea for his autobiography, which would include several chapters on raids against terrorist camps in the Libyan desert.”

Klein said the conversation was cut short because Faulkner stated that he would be leaving the next morning and would be gone for awhile, possibly for several weeks. “OPSEC is so important to these guys,” said Klein, “so usually when a world event happens and they have to go respond, they’ll have to quickly send us a manuscript for their next book idea before they get on a plane to go and do an op.”

[gute]

Originally Posted by Fuchs

That article is founded on the same wrong (non-)economics that assert governments (or, for example Medicare) are bankrupt because they don't have the means to pay for future obligation NOW.


We should go back to Bin laden, though.
Fig leaf:

From Duffel Blog:

Of course it is

I agree, let's get back to the OBL book