Ukraine (closed; covers till August 2014)

[OUTLAW 09]

Nice try but your FP article does not prove your contention. The fact that US SF teams trained to use SADMs in eastern Europe does not prove that EUCOM did not believe it could beat a Soviet /WP invasion of Western Europe. What do you know about MADMs and TADMs? Plans existed for their use as well. BTW, I believe the US stopped making/deploying SADMs in 1989.

Come on wm---just where were you in 1989?---by the way officially yes the SADMs were negated out in 1989 but not everyone gave them up until 1991(remember US Army Berlin did not leave until 1994) and secondly was not the entire Cold War ended in 1989/90 so the further need was not a given. Having been on a specific team in a particular point in time in West Berlin I did in fact know what the USECOM wartime contingency planning was to be for us---slowdown, channeling, area denial deep in the GDR as well as in other Warsaw Pact countries---literally a one way mission to gain time.

If in fact channeling/slow down/area denial efforts were in fact part and parcel of the USECOM war planning ---slowdown until further troops arrived means just exactly what---slowdown until help arrives---help to arrive took on an average Reforger exercise over eight weeks to get everyone on the ground---do you really think without the nuclear piece in play US Army units could have hung on for eight full weeks until reinforcements arrived?---come on wm just how many Reforger exercises were you part and parcel of---you would not be saying this then.

There were some planners that felt in 1989 with the T72/80s in place in the numbers that were in the SGFG in the GDR the slowdown would have been at the Rhine---and that is defined as what by yourself---winning?

So wm exactly where were you in 1989 when the last Reforger actually exercised the USECOM war plan across all of Germany with all of NATO involved from Rotterdam to the inner German border and oh by the way with massive use of all US/NATO SOF units for the deep fight?

I know where I was---I lead the "Soviet" Anti SOF Response Company using Soviet TTPs against US/NATO SOF to verify if they would be effective---they were by the way--so again USECOM practiced seriously in 1989 the complete war plan and it foresaw a massive slog just to get back to the inner German border---far from a complete "win' we were a tad short --so I am not sure where you get your facts concerning a "win".