The exchange between Bob and Bill is interesting for a number of reasons--but having dealt often with really good Islamists (good from their understanding of the Koran and the Sunnah and their speaking a really good Arabic) and even though I was the interrogator and they were the detainees the conversations sometimes got deep.
We in the West never took the time to try to understand what was driving them and often I caught myself actually agreeing with them--example---in 2005 and 2006 we never took the time to fully understand what was driving the Sunni insurgents---was it religious in nature, was it nationalism in nature meaning they did not like their country being invaded by Americans, was it they simply did not like foreigners and the list could go on and on.
Example---we chased someone for over two years---one year from the previous BCT the 1st ID and then we actually stumbled across him.
When I got his folder it was honestly four inches thick with reports over reports. So if one looked at the folder one would think you were dealing with a really major AQI fighter and or cell leader.
When I read through the reports I was stuck by a number of repeated reports saying virtually the same thing so that really the four inches went to about a half inch.
Then I simply said explain the remaining reports to me and just how did you get this massive reputation. He was startled by the direct question.
Here is the story and it goes to the heart of the ME and how we as Americans failed to fully understand what we were seeing.
This individual had a two brothers one a few years younger than himself (he was the oldest) and a really young brother of 12.
Next to the family in a small faming village near Baqubah there was a richer farmer who had a pond and ducks. One day the rich farmers wife came to my insurgents family and accused the youngest brother in front of the mother for stealing four of the ducks---the mother of the accused brother then slapped the rich farmers wife who went home crying.
Two days later the nephew of the rich farmers wife came to the insurgents family waving a pistol and demanding a financial payment for slapping the wife--this led to a gun fight with the nephew who was killed by the second oldest brother.
Now at least under Saddam the police functioned in 2002---the second oldest brother was arrested as was my insurgent who was later released as the investigating judge ruled there was no involvement on his part. The brother got a 20 year jail sentence for the killing and was in Abu Ghraib when we arrived in Baghdad and was released by Saddam just before we arrived thus basically freed of all charges.
So he goes home and there the aggrieved family then with every opportunity would finger the released brother for being in AQ , for being an insurgent, for being a criminal, for smuggling, for building IEDs, etc---and naturally we the Army collected all these reports which ended up in a targeting folder.
True reason for the massive reporting: ---the aggrieved family was simply mad that the murderer was out of jail and free and they wanted him locked back up.
When we did not respond by arresting the second brother the finger pointing towards my insurgent picked up as well with the same acusations ---at this stage in 2005 many BCTs did not fully understand this concept of Iraqi finger pointing which was using the Army by the local Iraqi as a vengeance tool against their alleged and perceived enemies.
Now AQI comes into play---in this town was a alcoholic AQ leader who often would walk down the street shooting his pistol at the locals---my insurgent had two windows shot out by him and one evening he goes down and basically shoots the AQI leader seriously wounding him---so now he is in trouble with the US Army, the AQI and caught between both the fronts.
He was also pushing AK47s that he had stolen from a local military camp because we did not get to Diyala until five weeks after arriving in Baghdad. So AQI upped the pressure and threatened his family if he did not sell them the weapons which he did --so now we have him on the radar as a AQI weapons dealer.
So now I have him sitting in front of me with a four inch folder as a AQI member, an AQI weapons dealer---all because of four allegedly stolen ducks back in 2002.
Or as the BN that captured him stated---he was a really bad dude.
Guess what--- we the US Army until 2010 never got this finger pointing exercise that the Iraqi's used with us to settle their personal disputes.
By the way many Iraqi women learned quickly that by accusing their husbands of being AQI we would arrest them and then they were gone for at least 2 or more years in Abu Ghraib and Bucca---during this period they would then divorce their husbands because the Army had arrested them as "terrorists" ---this was jokingly referred to as the "Iraq divorce".
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