Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
To this I would add the extraction of war reparations that would make the Russian's eyes water... together with other good stuff.
Is there any way to do this short of fighting a war with Russia? If not, why even bother discussing it?

Quote Originally Posted by JMA View Post
the crunch is that how the US is progressing - albeit with a very reluctant EU (especially Germany) - is not going to achieve that aim ever or anytime soon... or do you think otherwise?
If you look at the three nominal goals:

Complete withdrawl of Russian forces from Ukraine

Probably achievable, if the separatists can be forced into an untenable position without providing the Russians with an opportunity to intervene directly. As I've said elsewhere, this could be achieved by offering a settlement at a suitable point, aimed at depriving the Russians of the pretext for an intervention in the guise of "peacekeeping".

the cessation of Russian support for separatists

If a settlement can be achieved with the separatists, the Russian support will eventually cease. If the Ukrainians insist on a complete military victory, I think the Russians will probably intervene, not because they really want to but because they're afraid of being accused of betrayal by their own nationalists. A face-saving exit point could save a lot of mess.

the return of Crimea to Ukraine.

Realistically, not achievable without incurring costs that vastly exceed any possible benefit.

Any discussion of courses of action has to be reality-based... there's just no point in chest-thumping bluster.

Existing policy is neither a success nor a failure. Putin has not done in the east as he did in Crinea, He has not pulled an open invasion and tried to link up with the breakaway Russian enclave in Moldova. His proxies in the east are not winning. He got his way in Crimea, he's not getting it in the east. Mixed results for both sides. The extent to which Putin's failure in the east is a consequence of the gradually escalating sanctions is not possible to know at this point.

If either party adopts the position that nothing short of total victory is acceptable there will probably be a major war, which wouldn't be good for anybody.

As always, criticism of existing policy would be far more credible if accompanied by some indication of what realistically possible policies might have achieved better results (in the opinion of the critic, of course).