For Afghan opium, the demand is predominantly in Russia, the former Soviet Republics, and into Western Europe. Pretty tough to eliminate demand in many of those areas.
I've read, with bittersweet irony, several accounts which said the Taliban in its final year of rule, under intense international pressure, was able nearly to halt opium exports. I suppose this was due to their ability to exercise authoritarian and draconian measures against farmers and traffickers.
Like Carl I see legalization as a solution--painful to be sure--that will ultimately come in one form or another. Fantasy when it comes to the "war on drugs" comes in programs like crop substitution using potatoes in Afghanistan or coffee in Columbia without addressing the demand (and the rewards for meeting that demand).
I know Slap: you think I am touched on this one. But add up the billions spent in the past couple of decades and then please balance the checkbook with a corresponding improvement that justifies that expenditure.
Tom
Tom, just a little touched. Awhile back I said almost the same words to the effect unless crop replacement pays the same it is futile. Me and I think it was Merv Benson talked about selling it (opium) to pharmaceutical companies for legal drug usage. There would be a tremendous benefit to that. But finally I said the Afgan drug war is not our war. How many times is the mission in Afgan going to change. 1st it was get OBL and AQ,then the Taliban, now we are going to start spraying round-up on their major cash crop with nothing to replace it long term. When does that new War czar start? He has some work to do.
No More Kool Aid
Originally Posted by slapout9
Agree, mate, he does. But we are 5 years beyond where we should be formulating an answer to a problem we have largely ignored (or merely fervently wished would disappear). In those 5 years our answer has been that drugs in Afghanistan are a European problem; it was an expedient response to a problem that only grew until now when we cannot ignore it. The Taliban certainly did not ignore it as a source of funds. I mentioned potatoes above because I actually heard a brief some 2+ years ago that detailed the Brits' potato substitution effort. The briefer--and the audience around me--did not like it when I raised my hand and offered that "those must be some potatoes." Clearly I was supposed to keep drinking the Kool Aid. The War Czar indeed has his work cut out. First step: kick over the Kool Aid dispenser.
Tom
Tom, I should have sent or posted a reminder here but I forgot. Monday or Tuesday night on the National Geographic channel they had a great documentary on the drug war and how it worked very successfully in the early W's with what amounted to very effective "border control" what and idea!!! the only aggressive outside the country operations were extraditing major drug king pins to the US. Also had a lot of interviews with former drug dealers and users about how terrible this stuff is(designed to be addictive) this is not the regular stuff that it used to be!! which is why it should not be legalized in the US. I do believe if you are a user it should be decriminalized if you complete a 2 year in custody treatment program. Lou Dobbs talked about this the other night. If you sell the stuff to make money off other people's misery you need to go to jail!!!
The War on some Drugs in general is a waste of time, money and people.
The situation in Afghanistan seems superficially similar to the Peruvians dealing with the Shining Path. Army sweeps into control because the peasants generally want to grow their drugs in peace and the army lets them. Government brings in anti drugs operations and the Shining Path sweep back into power. Rinse and repeat.
The stuff was always addictive. If it is more so now, to be brutal about it, it is only a market response to consumer demand. The old unimproved version was just as effective a tool for a person to ruin their lives as the new improved model.
2 years in custody is a jail term by any other name. If we would jail users, it would have to be a certainty in their minds, that might, or might not work. How do you square "decriminalization" with a 2 year term in the pokey?
I don't feel sorry for the people who chose to ruin their lives via drug (or alchohol) use. They ones I've seen who did were never worth saving. To be brutal again, the people we are trying to save aren't worth all the money we are spending, lives we are losing and misery we are enduring trying to save them.
carl,decriminalization means you want have a felony rap sheet following you for the rest of your life if you complete the program. The difference in this program and what you might call regular prison was you were either in a job training program or school program during the day and returned to lock up at night. You had to have demonstrated job skills and life supporting skills before you got out of the program.
One of the biggest myths I saw as a cop was this so called magic demand that is built into Americans. It doesn't work that way. Usually happens when a friend gives you free samples and then you become hooked!! Then your friend will start charging you for it and that leads to the long downward spiral.
Why are we trying so hard, expending lives and money, to control their problem for them? Vladimir for one doesn't seem to appreciate our efforts.
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