Army Development of Junior Leaders

[Jedburgh]

You're right. But if Joe is dumber than a sack of hammers then his NCO should be telling him that at the end of each month. And if it goes in the monthly counselling, along with the other reasons why he won't be going to the board that month, then things work themselves out.

RTK, I'm with you. That is the converse of professional development - some people just can't be helped or motivated. If your NCO has PVT Joe #### the Ragman who is ####ed up like a soup sandwich in everything that he does, then he has to find some way to put that observation succinctly and quantifiably in writing in his counseling.

Unfortunately, a lot of outstanding tactical leaders are really bad at doing this, and the other necessary admin work required to expeditiously get rid of the dead weight - or at least ensure that they never make it to positions where they may possess even a smidgen of authority.



...in the old days we just shoved'em outside the stockade and let the injuns have their way with'em.

[Ski]

"Better no officer than a bad officer."

The Army personnel system is a giant shell game of numbers. People of lesser talent are going to be promoted along with you because they have to be. As long as the senior leadership demands that units be manned at 100% in the Division/BCT level forces, you are going to have this occur.

One other thing - the way that the Army rewards a job well done is to give you another hard job. While you might be tearing stuff up as an infantry platoon leader, when you see the spread of 1LT's, you'll start to see the cream seperate from the milk. The speciality platoons are usually led by the best 1LT's in the battalion(did they remove the support platoon leader position from combined arms and light battalions? I think so but can't remember...)

Also strongly agree with Jedburgh and RTK. Admin work is necessary to get ride of any problem children so know how to use the system.

[Strategic LT]

All,

I appreciate your feedback. Believe it or not, my unit has been abnormally successful in weeding out the bad. We have been able to chapter/not promote those who do not deserve with more success than any other unit in the squadron. My real beef here is with the development of leaders. I see no reason why the promotion system for NCOs cannot be changed. Please review our concept for WLC again and let me know what you think. I agree that the command has the biggest responsibility to find and reward those who should be promoted, but there are some commands that do not do this well (we are dealing with a past command who was that bad right now). WLC at this point is not needed to make E5. You can make promotion points by getting college credits, and for all of us ROTC grads you know that just by going to college does not make you a leader.

Example: we have E6 section chiefs who new as much about their piece as the soldiers did. Question to the past command: How in the hell can you justify promoting a guy who knows next to nothing about his MOS? You have done him, his soldiers, his unit, and the army a disservice for not preparing him for the section chief position that his rank puts him in.

I feel we can break the cycle by raising the bar, challenging, and instilling a competitive mentality amongst today’s lower enlisted ranks and junior officers for that matter.

I do like the idea of having more challenging assignments, but it is ridiculous that I get these tough jobs and excel in them while my peers are wasting away doing less difficult jobs and doing them poorly and still make rank at the same pace. Part of this stems from the BS that a LTs records are sealed after he makes CPT, why? If an LT makes a big mistake it should affect his future (a PVTs mistakes affect his future, why are LTs so different)

[Ski]

"I do like the idea of having more challenging assignments, but it is ridiculous that I get these tough jobs and excel in them while my peers are wasting away doing less difficult jobs and doing them poorly and still make rank at the same pace."

Honestly, you need to stop worrying about stuff like this and be the best officer you can be. There's little you can do to affect the career of another peer (other than diming him/her out and that's worse) so focus on what you want out of the military, and where you'd like to see your career progress to. The Army is seriously hurting for LT's and CPT's - they are going to promote almost everyone for the near term - and there's little you can do about it.

[Old Eagle]

Want a huge challenge well outside the box? Volunteer to be an advisor. You're a little young now, but you might get the process rolling.

[Strategic LT]

Ski,

thanks for the advice, some times a guy just needs to bitch. It is what it is I guess.

Old Eagle, thought about that. It is one of the options I have been thinking about.

[Ski]

Everyone needs to vent, but as you get older you recognize that there are some things that require a good fight, and some that don't.

I recognize that there is probably an issue with quality of JO's, but the demand is outstripping the supply, and the Army isn't going to get rid of them because everyone is getting promoted right now. You'll see seperation and stratification start to occur at the 1LT rank, and the higher up you go, the more stratification you'll see. Not everyone gets to be a Ranger battalion commander, or even a regular line battalion commander. So you need to look at what you want out of your career, how you can make an impact for the better on the leaders below you, and how you think you can change the system one small bit at a time.

[nichols]

KIM; Long flight to Pendleton, the local gas station had Czech beer.

I picked up this thread on my Blackberry a couple of days ago, work and family obligations stopped me from responding........

So now for the first installment.

I recieved my first good conduct medal as a L/Cpl

2nd as a CPL

3rd as a Sgt

4th as a SSgt

5th as a SSgt

6th as a SSgt

7th as a GySgt

I picked up my first fireteam as a L/Cpl, my first squad as a L/Cpl.

First Plt (Sniper ) was as a junior SGT.

I spent my first 11 and a half years going from Infantry unit to Infantry unit. Right around the 11th year my monitor decided that I needed a "B" billet (Drill Instructor, Recruiting Duty, or Marine Security Guard) to prove that I was a well rounded Marine

I signed up for Infantry...period....I didn't want anything else.....I wanted deployments.......I didn't want to protect swamp Lejuene or surf's up Pendleton....I wanted to be on the pointy end of the spear.

I was damn proud of the fact that I was a L/Cpl leading a squad, was better then a Sgt leading the squad? In my heart, I honestly thought so. These Sgts were coming back from B billets, I had more time in the fleet then they did. Ultimately I gave the Corps more bang for the buck.

What is the answer, does a three year Sgt had the same knowledge as a three year L/Cpl?

I would say yes. So with this in mind, the only thing the rapid promotions does is put more bucks for less bang, it gives them more money, more stabilty. More of a reason to stay in and commit.

Ultimately it hangs on the seasoned salts to temper the young leaders.

This is a no sh!^^er

"As a Sniper Plt Sgt I required an open squadbay for my Plt. This Plt was the snipers for the Battalion Recon that was attached to our Regiment. Our Regimental S-2 Chief (2 years less time in service then me) came into the squadbay in search of cymlights (sp) for the tactical intel desk. He went into our gearlocker and preceeded to test all of the cymlights that we had. during that work up we were heavy into the ITG non-illum. He came out with the Einstein....hey Sgt Nic, I just saved you a lot of embarassment....every single one of these 18 inch cymlights don't work......"

The good SSgt just wasted about 80 dollars worth of cymlights (1987).....they were infra-red, without NVGs you couldn't see the illum.

Very easy for me to say...SSgt those are infra-red. Ultimately I knew what he was looking for, I knew what we had in the gear locker......It's very easy for the junior leader to say the senior guy did it. But we as service members to the United States have an obligation that we use but at the same time we will revert back to.....well, so and so is senior to me so it's not my fault.

That's BS, let's stop blaming the system, I didn't get promoted soon enough but my mother stopped listening to me crying around the age of 11 or so.

If the rapidly promoted servicemembers do not get our mentoring even if the system gets them promoted faster and ultimately sooner then us, then we have failed. whether it be a L/Cpl that has just lost his squad to a barracks duty skater or a S-3 Ops guy that sits back and says....back in my day....

It ain't the rapidly promoted nimbnutt's fault, it is collectively the junior and senior leadership that is criminal if that individual doesn't receive our full mentoring.

And now for the end state....

I found myself as a Marine that spent 16 of 21 years overseas. Promotions were slow. The guys with the well rounded career had a house with 10-15 years of payments. Kids in college. I have a new house with 5 years worth of payments (I've been retired for that amount of time) a 13, 5 and 3 year old). I have manged to catch up and pass many of my peers from bootcamp due to my deployment times.

This all begs the question, what's right and what's wrong?

The only wrong thing is when we don't mentor.