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Thread: Ukraine: Russo-Ukr War (June-December 2015)

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  1. #1
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    Under the rules of Russian "weaponization of information" if we take my definitions of;

    civil war
    insurrection
    invasion

    THEN where does in fact reality on the ground fit in??

    This is verified ground reality;

    OSCE
    Between Sept. 1 and June 1, monitors counted 20,021 Russians in military uniforms crossing to and from rebel-controlled eastern Ukraine.


    So is this an example of a;

    civil war
    insurrection
    invasion

    Clearly not "a civil war" if 20K plus Russians in military uniforms are coming and going from Russian into eastern Ukraine--that smacks more of an "invasion".

    BUT wait under the Russian rules of "weaponization of information" these are fighters who volunteered, were voluntold, are vacationing and got lost because they had no GPS and maps, vacationing and took their own tanks and artillery with them while on vacation, former Russian military service members, Russian military retirees, Russian military contractors, plain Russian citizens defending fellow Russians from murdering Nazi's, Russian neo Nazi's fighting Ukrainian Nazi's, local miners AND truck drivers.

    BUT definitely not part and parcel of the Russian military--that simply cannot be the case--"absolutely no Russian troops in the Ukraine" is the mantra from Moscow since August 2014--but wait what about those 10 Russian airborne troops who were POWS in august 2014 and the two Russian GRU Spetsnaz POWs in 2015??

    That is "weaponization of information".

    Dismay, distract, distort, deflect, doubt, distrust--the 6Ds of the Russian "weaponization of information".

    Now if we look at the word--"plundering" which I think everyone assumes means "taking everything not nailed down, is not yours and you will not pay for it" because it belongs to the "enemy" and is the 'spoils of war".

    So is the massive theft of Ukrainian coal being shipped via Russia railway coal carriers to Russia, the complete dismantling of five Ukrainian factories and shipping them to Russia, the taking of anything that is scrape metal then shipping it to Russia and the recent taking of the Ukrainian grain harvest--150 truck loads of grain to Russia "plundering"??

    It definitely fulfills the definition of "plundering."

    So how does that fit into the term "civil war" where supposedly the local population is attempting to defend itself--not steal and ship everything to another country.

    THEN if we take the concept of the destruction of the entire critical infrastructure and civilian housing infrastructure by one's own defenders ie Russian Army how does that fit into the concept of a "civil war" vs say an "invasion" where that is expected to occur??

    Core question----Why does one destroy one's own house if I am in a "civil war" to defend myself??

    That is the "Russian weaponization of information".

    Once one understands "the game" it is quite easy to discern truth from fiction.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-20-2015 at 01:40 PM.

  2. #2
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    Russian "weaponization of information" moment of truth.--"we do not use the civilian population as human shields". BUT why does that then happen?? Which by the way is normal for an "invasion"---- but wait I though we are in a "civil war".....??

    Cognitive dissonance at work.

    VIDEO: RUSSIANS FIRING FROM ARTILLERY ON AN APARTMENT BUILDING IN AVDEEVKA
    http://www.publika.md/te-iau-fiorii-...-_2360011.html
    Last edited by davidbfpo; 07-20-2015 at 03:38 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Russian "weaponization of information" moment of truth.--"we do not use the civilian population as human shields". BUT why does that then happen?? Which by the way is normal for an "invasion"---- but wait I though we are in a "civil war".....??

    Cognitive dissonance at work.

    VIDEO: RUSSIANS FIRING FROM ARTILLERY ON AN APARTMENT BUILDING IN AVDEEVKA
    http://www.publika.md/te-iau-fiorii-...-_2360011.html …
    Pro-Russian rebels pointing out civilian apartment buildings to shell in Avdeyevka. Obvious war crime: http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrain...sualties/#9220 …

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Pro-Russian rebels pointing out civilian apartment buildings to shell in Avdeyevka. Obvious war crime: http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrain...sualties/#9220 …
    Russian mercenary war crimes again--using civilians human shields to protect their bases.

    Breaking: @Aero_Dnipro1 uses drone footage and Google Streetvieew to expose terrorist base behind apartment block.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mas5p8OAULs …

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Russian mercenary war crimes again--using civilians human shields to protect their bases.

    Breaking: @Aero_Dnipro1 uses drone footage and Google Streetvieew to expose terrorist base behind apartment block.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mas5p8OAULs …
    DNR militia is hiding tanks amid residential area, only 5 km from front line - VIDEO
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mas5p8OAULs … pic.twitter.com/NnV4594304

  6. #6
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    Donetsk, #Spartak, #Avdeevka - Shelling continues, again GRAD MLRS used

    AND all those responses from western leaders who threatened more sanctions if things got worse and Russia did not implement Minsk 2.

    WELL they are worse AND yet still no responses from Obama, Nuland, Kerry, Hollande and Merkel--why is that???

    Simple--words to do not require any actions on their parts but sound nice for the 24 hour news cycle.

    GRAD MLRS shellings are in full violation of Minsk 2 and yet not a single comment come from DC, Paris or Berlin.

    They appear to be tone deaf to artillery and rocket shellings and blind to the killing of soldiers/civilians and the destruction of infrastructure.

    That a war is ongoing in Central Europe in the 21st century is a testament to the failure of US/NATO/EU politicians.
    Last edited by OUTLAW 09; 07-21-2015 at 11:11 AM.

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    What was that OSCE SMM mission in the Ukraine to be...????

    They are definitely having some serious issues in trying to be "neutral" as is required.

    An supposedly “withdrawn” T72B1 ---OSCE did not even recognize that it was from the Russian Army as the Ukraine does not have this model in their entire tank inventory.

    From this angle we observe clearly- faded Russian army tactical marking & RF rail transport markings on this T72 tank pic.twitter.com/BI73AY2tTH

    Here the @OSCE_SMM rep is stood behind the #Russia|n T72 tank taking close-up photos
    Still did not recognize it as a Russian Army issued tank

    pic.twitter.com/mQBn0m4j3p

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    Donetsk, #Spartak, #Avdeevka - Shelling continues, again GRAD MLRS used

    AND all those responses from western leaders who threatened more sanctions if things got worse and Russia did not implement Minsk 2.

    WELL they are worse AND yet still no responses from Obama, Nuland, Kerry, Hollande and Merkel--why is that???

    Simple--words to do not require any actions on their parts but sound nice for the 24 hour news cycle.

    GRAD MLRS shellings are in full violation of Minsk 2 and yet not a single comment come from DC, Paris or Berlin.

    They appear to be tone deaf to artillery and rocket shellings and blind to the killing of soldiers/civilians and the destruction of infrastructure.

    That a war is ongoing in Central Europe in the 21st century is a testament to the failure of US/NATO/EU politicians.
    ATO Staff Chief: Russia-backed militants fired 320 times at Ukrainian military positions over the last four days

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTLAW 09 View Post
    DNR militia is hiding tanks amid residential area, only 5 km from front line - VIDEO
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mas5p8OAULs … pic.twitter.com/NnV4594304
    More Russian mercenary war crimes--firing on unprotected civilians in built up areas.

    Donetsk. Russians shelling UA positions, turn around and fire at city48.038236, 37.749115
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooDsPYTpKs8 … pic.twitter.com/sMwNnc93AH

    LUGANSK_TODAY touchdown at Kuibysheva St, 169 - 48.027874, 37.752952. Luckily it didn't explode. pic.twitter.com/adtPfkKBVU

    IMPORTANT could be evidence of self shelling angle low. https://twitter.com/sterion75/status/623458762284777472 …

    Flight of a projectile caught on vid in Donetsk https://twitter.com/666_mancer/statu...55682117959680 …

  10. #10
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    In the last day Mariinka checkpoint twice came under sniper fire. 12 drones recorded in the ATO zone - Border guards
    http://dpsu.gov.ua/ua/about/news/news_7939.htm …

    News
    Russian forces fired the artillery "it withdrew from #Horlivka on Sunday" from the city at #Mayorsk this morning, injuring 2 women.


    Nolan Peterson (@nolanwpeterson) talking about his experience on the frontline at the America House in Kyiv. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI07...ature=youtu.be …

    Russian Self-Propelled Howitzer 'Msta-S' from Ural at the Border of Ukraine: https://en.informnapalm.org/russian-...er-of-ukraine/ … pic.twitter.com/6uMgeWvC3o

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