Intelligence post-Snowden: a debate

[SWJ Blog]

The Fable of Edward Snowden


Read the full post and make any comments at the SWJ Blog.

[davidbfpo]

From The Economist a review of Edward Epstein's new book; it ends with:

But certainly nobody reading this book will easily retain faith in the Hollywood fable of Mr Snowden’s bravery and brilliance.

Link:http://www.economist.com/news/books-...changedhistory

[Azor]

From The Economist a review of Edward Epstein's new book; it ends with:

Link:http://www.economist.com/news/books-...changedhistory

David, as you may have read during my discussion of the Trump Dossier from Orbis, I find that logic and common sense are the best tools to determining the veracity of this type of information, given that I am not privy to secret intelligence.

What struck me about Snowden from the very beginning, was that his theft and release of classified materials as well as his justification and narrative of his actions, were entirely "iceberged", to use a stock trading term.

For convenience, let's say that 10% (probably far smaller) of the materials he released dealt with the NSA's surveillance of US citizens, part or all of which may have been unethical and/or illegal. This is where he assumes the mantle of "whistleblower".

Yet, 90% or more of the materials dealt with US SIGINT operations outside of the US and targeting non-citizens, including countries hostile to the US. The lack of materials dealing with Russia and China indicate that those operations were probably compartmentalized, so one can infer that Snowden didn't simply release materials he felt were in the public interest; he released every piece of information that he had access to. Moreover, he may have held some back that he used to "pay" for exile in Russia.

Russia admittedly spies on its own citizens and admittedly spies on the United States and the West, making it a curious home for someone allegedly "principled" as Snowden claims.

Oddly enough, Manning's theft mirrors that of Snowden, and perhaps were he not blown, Manning would have ended up in Russia as well...

[OUTLAW 09]

David, as you may have read during my discussion of the Trump Dossier from Orbis, I find that logic and common sense are the best tools to determining the veracity of this type of information, given that I am not privy to secret intelligence.

What struck me about Snowden from the very beginning, was that his theft and release of classified materials as well as his justification and narrative of his actions, were entirely "iceberged", to use a stock trading term.

For convenience, let's say that 10% (probably far smaller) of the materials he released dealt with the NSA's surveillance of US citizens, part or all of which may have been unethical and/or illegal. This is where he assumes the mantle of "whistleblower".

Yet, 90% or more of the materials dealt with US SIGINT operations outside of the US and targeting non-citizens, including countries hostile to the US. The lack of materials dealing with Russia and China indicate that those operations were probably compartmentalized, so one can infer that Snowden didn't simply release materials he felt were in the public interest; he released every piece of information that he had access to. Moreover, he may have held some back that he used to "pay" for exile in Russia.

Russia admittedly spies on its own citizens and admittedly spies on the United States and the West, making it a curious home for someone allegedly "principled" as Snowden claims.

Oddly enough, Manning's theft mirrors that of Snowden, and perhaps were he not blown, Manning would have ended up in Russia as well...

Azor...Snowdon was either a GRU and or SVR agent from the beginning...I am betting GRU as they work in stranger ways than does SVR and fly often under the IC CI reviews and they work over a longer period than does SVR....in the recruitment and handling of their agents....AND he was definitely warned that CI was getting close to his massive downloads thus running far earlier than the Russians wanted....

BUT the core question is are there more moles inside NSA and the answer is a big fat yes there are...thus the warning to Snowdon to run....had to have come from inside the NSA CI apparatus......

Walker was GRU controlled...as was the CWO James Hall was also GRU controlled and handled as well by SVR.....of the two Hall did far more damage for a lot of money as he passed SIGINT codes allowing for reading all previous NSA messages..just as Walker did on the Navy side.......notice Snowdon was not interested in money....although we do not know if in fact he received Russian funds for his work....maybe residing in Moscow was and or is payment enough.

Snowdon was never a true NSA employee but rather a contractor....thus he had access as a sysadmin to one domain left and right of his own domain....thus actually limited in what he took which was a ton any way....so compartmentation did work.....just on the world of computers a T byte of data is a heck of a lot.....

My question has always been how did he move it out of the NSA...Manning simple copied his files onto a music CD and left through the front door...I have worked in similar Manning sites and there was not tight controls as no one would assume you were "spying in a war zone"....Manning was nave and played as a fool by WikiLeaks...and he was young and barely a PFC/Sp/4....in rank....you work shifts and yes there is a security guard at the front door but they only do an occasional spot check since everyone knows each other.....I have been in SIGINT sites where you are almost strip searched on leaving...but a war zone is far far laxer.....

What many do not fully realize is that the security requirements for employment as a civil service employee ie NSA is far more stringent than that of defense contractors even though they claim to have the same clearances...

But regardless we now know Snowdon to be a full fledged spy and he will remain in Moscow as his asking for a pardon was just a smokescreen trying to keep up his images as a whistleblower not a true spy...

[OUTLAW 09]

THIS is a major issue that involves through the US......goes to the rule of law that is if this article is correct being massively violated by US police departments....

http://www.defenseone.com/technology...=DefenseOneTCO

The spy game#begins#

Two decades ago, cellphone surveillance tools were mostly used by federal law enforcement and intelligence community personnel for national security and high-level criminal investigations. But after 9/11, as police departments ventured into counter-terror operations themselves,#local cops began to snatch up these sophisticated devices.In December 2015,#The Intercept#released#a catalogue of military surveillance tools, leaked by an intelligence community source concerned by this perceived militarization of domestic law enforcement. The catalogue included tools that#could track thousands of people’s cellphones at once,#extract deleted text messages from captured phones, and#monitor ongoing calls#and text messages. Following this news, last April, CityLab began sending public records requests to the#top fifty largest police#across the country asking for purchasing orders and invoices over 2012 to 2016 related to any of the devices listed in the catalogue. (Note: The fifty largest list is based on data released in 2010 from the Police Pay Journal, and thus does not include some departments now among the top fifty largest).Of the fifty departments sent public records requests, only eight claimed not to have acquired any spy tools leaked by#The Intercept’s#intelligence source. At least twelve have admitted to having cellphone interception devices, and nineteen have admitted to having cellphone extraction devices. The responses, security-based rejections, and outstanding requests still being processed for CityLab suggest that, at a minimum, thirty-nine of the fifty departments have acquired at least some of these military-grade surveillance tools over the last four years. (Click here#to see the original cache of documents, or scroll down to the bottom of this#article)

Click here for interactive.

In the map above, you can get more details on the various capabilities that the police departments who responded to our requests have acquired in recent years. Click on a city to see its department’s spending, years of spending, acquired capabilities, and surveillance gear vendors. The non-redacted purchases, recorded in documents obtained from 27 departments, total more than $4.6 million. (Note: This figure includes all equipment disbursements released in the documents, going as far back as 2008 in a handful of#cases.)

[davidbfpo]

Outlaw 09,

Defense One is rather behind the times here IMHO. The transfer of strategies, tactics and equipment from the military in the USA, after their development and use in COIN has been around for several years. Incidentally not just in the USA, there are similar indications here in the UK.

There are two relevant, closed threads which sparked discussions. There maybe others.

1) COIN comes home to assist policing:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=5424

2) Social Media: the widest impact of:http://council.smallwarsjournal.com/...ead.php?t=5954

[OUTLAW 09]

Perfect example of MSM....large headlines this morning....question is though who is the hacking group releasing these files for????

Hackers release files indicating NSA monitored global bank transfers
http://reut.rs/2pl1A1a

Well is that not interesting...truly really absolutely not...if they had not been doing this then they are negligent in their Mission Set Taskings...

BTW....this is a true non news item...why ..standard internal banking regulations since 9/11 practiced by all Western banks under SWIFT foresees all money transfers of over 5K USDs being monitored to begin with...and when coming into the US or out of the US an individual must declared any money amount over 10K USDs...

So again just what is the massive "new news" that this article is trying to convey????