Whatever happened to "wanted, dead or alive"?
Frankly, I don't know where this willingness to assert that Bin Laden is dead and his latest manifesto is a fake comes from.
If I was king (perish the thought), I'd assume he was alive and up to something until he was in custody/killed/captured.
And like your average man on the street, I cringe when I hear talk about how capturing him doesn't matter. It sounds too much like a rationalization for not "bringing him to justice, or justice to him".
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Bush Jr. said he is not concern with him anymore. Remember?
No. What he said was that Bin Laden is not our only threat nor is killing or capturing him going to end the war or cause our enemies to quit. There are quite a few people in the government who believe that we should just be focused on finding Bin Laden. We cannot afford to focus on Bin Laden and ignore everything else.
SFC W
"Get Yamamoto" is what I'm reminded of.
Oh, I understand the point that it is more than Bin Laden, the man, that is the problem. I can grasp this logic. It is the ideology he articulates that is the problem. Specifically, it is the Wahhabism branch of Sunni Islam that is arguably the ultimate source. This Wahhabism which is spreading to Muslim lands draws financial support, ideology and even recruits from its entrenched heartland in ....Mesopotamia, of course. Well, actually no, it comes out of Saudi Arabia.
Call me crazy or a dreamer, but the man is responsible for the deaths of around 3,000 American citizens and billions of dollars of damage. To me, at least, he matters a little bit more than the deputy commander of Al Qaeda in Ramadi or Baquba.
FDR requested Sec. of the Navy Knox "to get Yamamoto." The U.S. navy seemed to take the attack on Pearl Harbor personal, and killed the author of it. Anyone interested in how we dealt with this man can read all about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Yamamoto#Death
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Hm. I was referring on this:Originally Posted by Uboat509
Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.
But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we -- excuse me for a minute -- and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the things -- part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0020313-8.html
Bush - Truly not concerned about bin Laden
Added: August 11, 2006
From: BI30
Remember, this is just SIX MONTHS after 9/11. In response to a reporters question, President Bush tells the world that he is "truly not that concerned" with catching the man who murdered 3,000 Americans just six months and two days earlier because "we've marginalized him."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PGmnz5Ow-o
Last edited by Sarajevo071; 09-09-2007 at 03:50 AM.
Well, Tacitus, I think
that comes from the fact that he does seem to be wearing the samw clothes for weeks on end. Not to mention that it is to thier advantage for him to be "alive.' ours, too to a lesser extent. Big Martyrs attract more little martyrs.
You'd probably be right but you'd also know tha if he goes, Zawahiri who's the real driving force would take charge. If Zawahiri is killed, then someone else will and so on, ad infinitum. Thus better to preserve the fiction and leave him alone.If I was king (perish the thought), I'd assume he was alive and up to something until he was in custody/killed/captured.
Hunh. Interesting. I used to hang out around Bristol -- well, Kingsport, actually -- many years ago and the folks up there must've changed in the last forty years. Most of them then would have more concerned with vengnance than justice.And like your average man on the street, I cringe when I hear talk about how capturing him doesn't matter. It sounds too much like a rationalization for not "bringing him to justice, or justice to him".
Be that as it may, where would you "bring him to justice" and on what charge? A few guys come to him with an idea, he helps them get money to do what they wanted to do. He said a lot of stuff on videos and tape which may or may not be admissable but which in any event are just words. you might get a Conspiracy charge, little more, I suspect.
bin Ladin video...
..and there, I thought OBL was attending the APEC summit....
I don't know his taylor or valet. I don't know why he favors a particular suit (or whatever they call this kind of garb). A trademark? A uniform? Maybe he just thinks he looks good in it. Why was Abe Lincoln always walking around in a black coat and top hat? What's up with that?
But I'll take it all back if y'all are offended. Assuming he's alive... YAWN. Big deal. He's just a cog in a wheel.
Actuallly, I don't want to bring him to justice. It was the President who said it was either bring him to justice, or justice to him.
It was in "Breaker Morant", a good flick for anybody out there who hasn't seen it, where Morant said "I believe it is customary in war to kill as many of the enemy as possible." I guess that pretty much sums up how me, and folks in Bristol/Kingsport/Johnson City feel about Bin Laden. They definitely want to "bring justice to him."
Last edited by Tacitus; 09-08-2007 at 01:26 AM. Reason: can't type. also too hard on bin laden.
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You miss the point, Tacitus - and I guess I missed yours
The clothing bit was directed at the fact that they've used the same pictures of him in at least two of the last three videos (haven't seen this one yet).
Can't speak for anyone else but I'm not offended -- why would I be. He's more than a cog in a wheel but he is not irreplaceable, no one is. He does have symbolic value and we don't need a martyr. The more important point is that AQ is not a heirarchial organization, it's amorphous -- the old starfish; cut a ray off and it just generates another to replace it. His death or departure wouldn't make much difference to the organization other than symbolically.
Still there is that symbology. His continued breathing is really in both our interests. Even if it isn't satisfying.
Presidents say a lot of dumb things; if they didn't, we wouldn't be able to say "What the President really meant was..."
And I'm glad to hear the Tri-Cities area hasn't changed that much; Good for them. Bring justice to him is one thing; bringing him to justice would likely pose more problems than it would solve. Now, if he isn't dead and we can just find him. He's as hard to locate as Eric Rudolph was...
Old Bill Rails At Authors, Even Rummy
He looks like a doctored sock puppet, his mystique fading like that of Che, yet never fully gone, slowly succumbing to a superior system of economics, justice, moral values, technology and military might. And yes, even better football. I swear to God, this video prop is my neighbor, Old Bill. I''m driving by his place later to see if there are any lights on. What's the wager on how long the prop's words lingered in the few, average, working Americans that tuned in? He should have maybe cursed Mexican truck drivers or gay rights activists or abortion clinics or the slump in the housing market or the Minn. Vikings and gleaned a couple more seconds of collective American attention.
Killing Abu Musab al-Zarqawi didn't bring end to the Iraqi Resistance like many in U.S. military and political circles was predicting.He's more than a cog in a wheel but he is not irreplaceable, no one is. He does have symbolic value and we don't need a martyr. The more important point is that AQ is not a heirarchial organization, it's amorphous -- the old starfish; cut a ray off and it just generates another to replace it. His death or departure wouldn't make much difference to the organization other than symbolically.
Still there is that symbology. His continued breathing is really in both our interests. Even if it isn't satisfying.
Presidents say a lot of dumb things; if they didn't, we wouldn't be able to say "What the President really meant was..."
That was my whole point.
True, but I'd submit his demise was critical to the Anbar Awakening.
Example is better than precept.
Okay, you and I agree and the guy I responded
to in the excerpt you quoted seems to differ with us...
As for anyone in US military circles predicting anything significant occurring as a result of Zarqawi's death, I missed that. Politicians did do what you say but then, they're politicians. IMO, no one with any sense at all pays much attention to them.
I agree
!!
Heck, where did I ever write that getting Bin Laden would be the end of our troubles? Scroll back down and I plainly say that this Wahhabi Islam sect (which comes out of Saudi Arabia and not Mesopotomia, I might add) is the spiritual, financial, and ideological home of Al Qaeda. That doesn't mean me and 99% of the American public don't want him out of commission anyway. If you are fighting a war on terror, knocking out high profile terrorists might (just might) have a positive effect on the home front.
It is sort of like the debate over capital punishment. Opponents always say that executing criminals won't stop crime. Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve it. Putting Al Capone behind bars or six feet under wasn't going to end the crime problem in Chicago...doesn't mean it wasn't worth the effort.
Bin Laden is wanted for what he did...NOT necessarily for what getting him may result in. I don't know how to put it any clearer than that. I don't think I am anywhere near along in this thinking. The fact that we appear to have no particular interest in him over any other Al Qaeda operative puzzles me. Wasn't 9/11 the reason why we got in this war, anyway?
Last edited by Tacitus; 09-09-2007 at 11:55 AM. Reason: typographical error
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