Hi Tom,

Quote Originally Posted by Tom OC View Post
Marc, you're absolutely right about Durkheim being too volkgeist oriented, but I've often found the civil religion folks are likewise fuzzy, although I have to admit I hadn't read Hammond's take on it (thanks for the link) but you can probably guess what I think of Berger.
LOLOL - I can probably guess . Honestly, I find them somewhat fuzzy as well, but I think that they are, in their own structural functionalist way, getting at a "truth" that stands behind Durkheim.

Quote Originally Posted by Tom OC View Post
When General Boykin got in trouble for his remarks that the enemy was satan and our God was bigger than his, I thought he was on to something, and frankly, I hoped for much more reaction.
I remember that. I also remember thinking that he was nuts - an emotional reaction rather than a thought out one .

Quote Originally Posted by Tom OC View Post
I also think that GWOT has a distinct religious dimension that we need to own up to. Watering it down in a secular direction with rule of law/education projects (as the civil religionists would have it) would diffuse and minimize the impact that a true religious ritual would have.
I think it does as well, but I also believe that, baring a state religion, it cannot be fought on religious lines. Furthermore, while I do view the entire GWOT as essentially "religious", I do not view it as one religion vs. another but, rather, as one worldview of religion vs. another. To be specific about it, I view the GWOT as a war against thought control and dogmatism in all of its forms, religious or civil.

Does this reduce its impact? Yeah, it does. But I think that there is something to be said about a conflict that unites many religions, and this has/had the potential to do that. I have too many friends from various religions who are involved in it to view it as a simplistic my God is bigger than your God argument. IMO, any deity that needs to start wars to prove their mojo is just a fake (BTW, check out the Gospel of Norea for a good example).

Maybe I've read too many Gnostic texts, but I view this as a war between those who would tell people what to think and those who would see people freed from that. This isn't, BTW, a simplistic us vs. them argument; IMO it is a philosophical fight where the proponents of mental slavery are on both of the official "sides" as are their opponents.

Anyway, it's late and I've been up too long - I think I may be blithering again .

Marc