Scrutinizing Petraeus's Record

[Rob Thornton]

I support OIF, yet if a Soldier (and I don't mean a Soldier with a bad attitude problem about military life) just returned home and says it's a mess and he doesn't support it anymore, who am I to tell him he's wrong? Yes, I have the freedom to state my opinion, but he has the authoritative opinion. (I'd rather a guy who's been there tell him he's wrong)

Ski, if there is a war, its likely it is a mess. The conditions which led to war, and prolonged it almost guarantee it. In our society, that soldier is certainly entitled to his or her opinion, and I think its healthy to our society that they can voice it. What you can do to further your own understanding is ask questions that provide more insight to the thoughts you already have - where was the soldier at, what did they do, what exactly do they mean by "its a mess"? Where that soldier may have served may be much worse then the next city over. Wars have an objective and subjective nature to them. The subjective extends right down to the personal experience by individual participants.

Does that help?
Regards, Rob

[Steve Blair]

Ski, if there is a war, its likely it is a mess. The conditions which led to war, and prolonged it almost guarantee it. In our society, that soldier is certainly entitled to his or her opinion, and I think its healthy to our society that they can voice it. What you can do to further your own understanding is ask questions that provide more insight to the thoughts you already have - where was the soldier at, what did they do, what exactly do they mean by "its a mess"? Where that soldier may have served may be much worse then the next city over. Wars have an objective and subjective nature to them. The subjective extends right down to the personal experience by individual participants.

Does that help?
Regards, Rob

Exactly. Vietnam is a good example of this, although there are as many examples as there have been wars. I'd like to use a handful of war movies to illustrate the point (with the standard disclaimer that movies aren't war, but they often provide a good visual reference point for general discussions).

Oliver Stone insists that "Platoon" is the Vietnam War. There are also those who insist that "Hamburger Hill," "Go Tell the Spartans," "Full Metal Jacket," or "81 Charlie Mopic" are Vietnam. The answer (if there is one)?

Yes. They all are, but for the specific viewpoint and spatial reference point of the main character(s). Platoon may be valid for Stone, but it isn't for the people being painted in Go Tell the Spartans. And the sort of conflict painted in those movies doesn't reflect the streetfighting in Hue shown in Full Metal Jacket or the larger-scale "hill fights" that can be generically shown in Hamburger Hill.

For the World War II example, Saving Private Ryan shows one snapshot, as does Midnight Clear and Letters from Iwo Jima.

And now I need to stop...too much fuzzy philosophy type stuff on a Sunday morning.....